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Normal Topic A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence? (Read 3984 times)
kylemeister
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Re: A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence?
Reply #6 - 01/28/14 at 17:58:11
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Regarding possible early activity by Black vs. g3, I'm reminded of this amusing encounter:  1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 d6 4. g3 Nc6 5. d5 Nd4 6. Be3 c5 7. Nb1 Qb6 8. Bc1 Bh6 9. c3 Bg4 10. Qa4  Kf8 11. Nd2 Qa5 0-1 (Gliksman-P. Popovic, Wroclaw 1979).
  
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RdC
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Re: A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence?
Reply #5 - 01/28/14 at 17:24:36
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Caledonian wrote on 01/28/14 at 11:14:28:
I’m not really interested in whether a fianchetto set up is currently fashionable or not. I would prefer it if it wasn’t! My question is simply do you think it is  it a viable option for white?


In many lines of the Pirc and Modern, Black just waits for something to happen. So White electing to do very little by just playing Ne2/f3, g3 and Bb2 is unlikely to be hazardous to the first player.

The biggest decision is what to do about plans with an early c5. You could defer or abandon d4 which takes you into Closed Sicilian or Sicilian KIA territory. Otherwise you have to decide whether to leave the pawn on d4, take on c5 or push d5. The latter two are usually both playable but may steer the game into territory your opponent might be familiar with. Ignoring the c pawn is usually fine, but once Black takes your d pawn, you are in some form of Open Sicilian. Many lines of the Open Sicilian including the Dragon have a g3, Bg2 variation, so it's a question of whether you are prepared to play such positions.
  
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Caledonian
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Re: A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence?
Reply #4 - 01/28/14 at 16:06:42
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ErictheRed wrote on 01/28/14 at 14:57:29:
Caledonian wrote on 01/28/14 at 13:22:09:
I was initially a bit confused by your comment about transposing into a closed sicilian though. The basic set up for white I had been thinking of ( as in the fianchetto var of the Pirc) is 1e4, 2d4, 3Nc3 probably followed with an immediate g3 fianchetto on move 4 or following 4Ne2. Since the closed var usually involves d3 I had assumed you actually meant the open sicilian.


I'm just going to let you work out all of the move order stuff, as I don't know about the rest of your repertoire.  Obviously 1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.g3 c5 is heading towards a Closed Sicilian, right?  Though switching to an Open is possible (if both sides agree): 1. e4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. g3 c5 4. Nge2 d6 5. Bg2 Nf6 6. O-O O-O 7. d4 cxd4 8.Nxd4.

Besides 3...c5 Black can of course play various "Modern" moves, 3...Nd7, 3...c6, 3...e5, head for a Pirc with 3...d6, etc, etc.  You'll need to work out what you want to play for yourself; maybe you don't even want to play 2.Nc3?  It's up to you.  Karpov played 1.d4 d6 2.e4 g6 3.g3 against Seirawan once, I remember, so I don't think that there's anything wrong with it.


Its ok. I really wasn't expecting to be spoon fed specific repertoire suggestions here! Although I would be interested in any game examples of a fianchetto set up for white vs a modern structure. Anyone seen any?

For general information the 1e4 repertoire I am working with at present is as follows:

1e4-e5 Vienna Game with 3g3 vs 2..N-f6, 3B-c4 vs 2..N-c6
1e4-c5 KIA or Closed Sicilian
1e4-e6 KIA or Chigorin var
1e4-c6  Exchange variation or ‘English var’ with 2c4
1e4-d5 Fianchetto variations vs 2...Qxd5 (Classical  lines)
1e4-d5 3B-b5+ vs 2..Nf6 (Modern variation) of Scandanavian
1e4-d6 Fianchetto variation
1e4-g6  2N-c3/3g3  vs Modern/Hippo, Gurgenidze or the Sniper.
1e4-N-f6   2N-c3 aiming for Vienna game with 2..e5 or facing 2..d5 with 3e5

I am definitely one of those players who will seek to avoid getting into an open Sicilian from 1...g6. Being taken into an open sicilian would be the equivalent of black pulling off an opening swindle for me!

Your right black has plenty of alternative moves to see what white does. But with this set up white has plenty of time too to decide on when to play d4 (if at all). I think its much easier to get pulled into an open sicilian if white plays d4 early as black has the 1..c5 response characteristic of the sniper. Fine is your Karpov and fully booked up for that!
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence?
Reply #3 - 01/28/14 at 14:57:29
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Caledonian wrote on 01/28/14 at 13:22:09:
I was initially a bit confused by your comment about transposing into a closed sicilian though. The basic set up for white I had been thinking of ( as in the fianchetto var of the Pirc) is 1e4, 2d4, 3Nc3 probably followed with an immediate g3 fianchetto on move 4 or following 4Ne2. Since the closed var usually involves d3 I had assumed you actually meant the open sicilian.


I'm just going to let you work out all of the move order stuff, as I don't know about the rest of your repertoire.  Obviously 1.e4 g6 2.Nc3 Bg7 3.g3 c5 is heading towards a Closed Sicilian, right?  Though switching to an Open is possible (if both sides agree): 1. e4 g6 2. Nc3 Bg7 3. g3 c5 4. Nge2 d6 5. Bg2 Nf6 6. O-O O-O 7. d4 cxd4 8.Nxd4.

Besides 3...c5 Black can of course play various "Modern" moves, 3...Nd7, 3...c6, 3...e5, head for a Pirc with 3...d6, etc, etc.  You'll need to work out what you want to play for yourself; maybe you don't even want to play 2.Nc3?  It's up to you.  Karpov played 1.d4 d6 2.e4 g6 3.g3 against Seirawan once, I remember, so I don't think that there's anything wrong with it.
  
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Re: A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence?
Reply #2 - 01/28/14 at 13:22:09
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Caledonian wrote on 01/28/14 at 13:08:47:
Yes, absolutely.  It depends a bit on move order, of course, and after 1.e4 g6 I'd think that fianchettoing is less popular than it would be if White had begun with 1.c4 or 1.d4.  Transpositions to the fianchetto Pirc are highly likely, and even possible to lines of the Closed Sicilian.  You'll have to work out which move order you want to adopt and which transpositions you'd like to allow, etc.


Thanks for your response. I accept a financhetto set up for white is likely to be less popular than systems involving 1d4 or 1c4. But then I suppose the same could be said of the fianchetto var too against the Pirc. This line went through a flurry of popularity at the super GM level a while back but that period seems long past. No bad thing from my perpective as I dont want my basic set up constantly challenged by the latest innovation at the top level.

I was initially a bit confused by your comment about transposing into a closed sicilian though. The basic set up for white I had been thinking of ( as in the fianchetto var of the Pirc) is 1e4, 2d4, 3Nc3 probably followed with an immediate g3 fianchetto on move 4 or following 4Ne2. Since the closed var usually involves d3 I had assumed you actually meant the open sicilian.

On reflection though perhaps you were thinking of something different  like 1e4/2Nc3/3g3? Actually, I think that approach is more attractive. Especially, if black pulls 2...c5 or 3...c5 on me. 

Generally, there is a bit of a difficulty with 2d4 or 3d4 vs the sneaky move order of 3...c5.  For someone like myself , more into a closed sicilian, maybe 1e4/2Nc3/3g3 is the way to go vs 1..g6/2..B-g7/3...c5?   

I suppose black could then play 3...e5 instead but I dont see that as too troubling as black has transposed into a rather obscure var of the Vienna game where his financhetto is of questionable value. Its actually, makes white's plan of an f4 push more attractive. 
« Last Edit: 01/28/14 at 14:33:58 by Caledonian »  
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ErictheRed
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Re: A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence?
Reply #1 - 01/28/14 at 11:53:29
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Caledonian wrote on 01/28/14 at 11:14:28:
My question is simply do you think it is  it a viable option for white?


Yes, absolutely.  It depends a bit on move order, of course, and after 1.e4 g6 I'd think that fianchettoing is less popular than it would be if White had begun with 1.c4 or 1.d4.  Transpositions to the fianchetto Pirc are highly likely, and even possible to lines of the Closed Sicilian.  You'll have to work out which move order you want to adopt and which transpositions you'd like to allow, etc.
  
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Caledonian
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A Fianchetto Set up vs the Modern Defence?
01/28/14 at 11:14:28
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I have been playing the English for some years now but I decided recently I would like to add 1e4 back into to my opening options to inject some more variety into to my repertoire. I should state I am graded under FIDE 1600.

One thing I know about my style is that I feel really comfortable playing white openings with a fianchetto ( for some bizarre reason much less so as black where I play the Caro-Kann/French or Slav/QGA). 

Hence I Play the Vienna vs 1…e5 which allows a fianchetto vs 2..N-f6. I adopt the KIA attack or Chigorin  vs the French. I was using the closed Sicilian but dropped this in favour of the KIA recently as I was getting a lot of opponents playing the …e6 lines that are really hard to get much advantage against with the closed var.

I also use the fianchetto variation vs the Pirc which I have had good results with so far.

You will not be surprised to hear I have adopted a fianchetto vs the 2…Qxd5 lines in the Scandanavian too!

However, what about the modern defence? Of course it’s a very flexible defence. There appear to be  numerous permutations available to either side.  Still, from my very rudimentary level of knowledge there seem to be three basic approaches available to black where white plays 1e4/2d4/3Nc3 (excluding the Pirc of course):

1 A hippo/modern based around ..a6 with …e6 involved.

2 A system involving  ..c6 with a likely …d5 follow up. The Gurgenidze system

3 The 'Sniper' involving 3...c5

I just wondered what people thought about the viability of a fianchetto set up vs the modern?

I admit I haven’t read much on this topic. So excuse my ignorance here.

I know the book Tiger's Modern comes  highly recommended but I dont own this at present. Does Tiger Persson discuss a fianchetto set up vs his favoured set up?

I’m not really interested in whether a fianchetto set up is currently fashionable or not. I would prefer it if it wasn’t! My question is simply do you think it is  it a viable option for white?
« Last Edit: 01/28/14 at 13:12:35 by Caledonian »  
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