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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) what do you play against d5? (Read 14515 times)
kylemeister
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #15 - 09/08/14 at 22:36:05
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TN wrote on 09/08/14 at 13:07:52:
If you want to play the Colle but don't like it against the King's Indian, you can look into 2.Nd2 to try and provoke ...d5 and get the positions you like.


I would wonder e.g. how many KID players would be put off playing 2...g6 (when one possibility would be "Geller's Quiet System" in the Pirc), and what could attract White versus 2...d5 and ...Bf5.

Another possibility is 2...e5, which has been given as leading to equality -- if it doesn't win very quickly  Smiley
  
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #14 - 09/08/14 at 16:25:37
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MartinC wrote on 09/08/14 at 12:55:27:
Would think black must have some alternative more boring/less ambitious option though.

I would think of the Slav/Grünfeld crossover 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 g6 4.c4 c6 etc.
  

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kylemeister
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #13 - 09/08/14 at 15:25:40
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MartinC wrote on 09/08/14 at 12:55:27:
Actually that's quite exciting if black commits to e5,e4 and white b4,a4,b5 etc.
(Or at least the reversed mirror image in the French is Smiley)

Would think black must have some alternative more boring/less ambitious option though.


I don't think it would be normal for Black to go for the pure reversed version, as in playing 9...e4 after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. Nf3 d6 5. e3 0-0 6. Be2 Nbd7 7. 0-0 e5 8. b4 Re8 9. a4; books have given stuff with 9...ed or 9...a5.
« Last Edit: 09/08/14 at 17:26:12 by kylemeister »  
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TN
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #12 - 09/08/14 at 13:07:52
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I doubt anyone will argue that the best answer to 1...d5 is 2.c4 (or 2.Nf3/3.c4), but the next best options are probably the Improved London (2.Bf4), 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 systems and the Colle (provided one is willing to play an early c4 against non-QGD setups). Black can still equalise against these lines, but he needs some specific knowledge that most of those wielding the Black pieces lack.

Probably the easiest of the decent lines to start playing is 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bf4, but only if you are already quite a strong player.

PS When deciding on your system of choice you might also keep in mind your preference against 1...Nf6. For instance, if you want to play the 2.Bf4 London, 1...Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 is a problem, but after 2.Bf4 there's another annoying response in 2...c5 followed by a quick ...Qb6. If you want to play the Colle but don't like it against the King's Indian, you can look into 2.Nd2 to try and provoke ...d5 and get the positions you like.
  

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MartinC
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #11 - 09/08/14 at 12:55:27
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Actually that's quite exciting if black commits to e5,e4 and white b4,a4,b5 etc.
(Or at least the reversed mirror image in the French is Smiley)

Would think black must have some alternative more boring/less ambitious option though.
  
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #10 - 09/08/14 at 10:48:10
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omegablitz wrote on 08/15/14 at 18:17:43:
chandrashekharkoravi wrote on 04/16/14 at 16:35:16:
Well its depends on what is your current rating...and what type of position do you like..I personally like colle against d5 and white might not have any problem against d5...The only problem with colle is when black starts with Nf6

White still has problems against a Grunfeld type setup. Basically kingside fianchettos are the bane of the Colle.


White may have not have an advantage but at least he can make it interesting against the Gruenfeld.
http://www.thechessmind.net/blog/2013/9/16/grischuk-wins-the-acp-cup.html

I think it's harder to get good play versus the King's Indian if one commits to e3 but I suppose some sort of reversed French is OK, just not thrilling.
  
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omegablitz
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #9 - 08/15/14 at 18:17:43
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chandrashekharkoravi wrote on 04/16/14 at 16:35:16:
Well its depends on what is your current rating...and what type of position do you like..I personally like colle against d5 and white might not have any problem against d5...The only problem with colle is when black starts with Nf6

White still has problems against a Grunfeld type setup. Basically kingside fianchettos are the bane of the Colle.
  
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Tim-G-London
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #8 - 06/28/14 at 13:16:31
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At first sight Black’s position looks attractive with a looming pawn mass. However the various lines I have looked at in detail – without the help of a machine – suggest that white ‘s position is playable.
The key move is nc3 so that when queens are exchanged white can retake with his q-rook and not get his king stuck on a vulnerable square subject to black attacks. The pawn mass e.g. pawns on e4, f4 f5 and g5 (white can play h4 in some variations) or more simply e4 and f4, actually leaves black's king exposed. The Ps seem uncoordinated.
The pawn on f4 may be captured by white’s knights positioned on d5 and e2.

After 1 d4 d5 2. Bg5 f6 3. Bf4 nc6 4. e4 e4: 5. d5 e5 a sample variation 6, nc3 f4: 7. dc6:. Black may now lose a move by recapturing on c6 leaving him with isolated doubled pawns or if not the c6 can exert malevolent pressure on the black position. Assuming black plays the natural7.... f5 to protect the e pawn from capture, best is 8 nb5 threatening fork on c7 black is underdeveloped. So 8...bd6 seems forced then 9. Nd6ch cd6: 10 rd6  ke7 seems best 11. Rd4 g5 otherwise the pawn on f4 cannot be supported. 12  h4  g4  13. Ne2  f3 14. Gf:  gf: (to try and stop attack on e-file) 15 nf4  bc  16. bc4 ne8 . White has play for the pawn threat rg1 and g7 ch. White also has bind and it is hard to see how black can develop.
The point is this opening produces unusual positions which I find more interesting to analyse & play than stodgy Semi-slavs with theory running 30 moves deep.  Wink
  

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kylemeister
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #7 - 06/22/14 at 15:00:43
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Offhand I would think 4. e4 de 5. d5 runs into a nice 5...e5.
  
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Tim-G-London
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #6 - 06/22/14 at 14:53:42
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That's v informative txt! U wrote "...Tromp theory gets weirder by the year". Sounds v stimulating and the sort of opening I'd like to play but knowing that nobody - most of all me - recalls the theory.
How about after 1....d4 2. Bg5 f6 3. Bf4 nc6 4. e4 (as a gambit, here I come immortalised into chess theory)?
Idea if 4...p x p   5. d5. if 5...ne5 6. qd4 w/ a game at least.
better is 4. ....e6 (but with a white sq weakness at least) Then 5.pxp qxp  6. Nf3

U oh reader can do better than that!

Written w/out aid of chessmachine,

Tim
  

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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #5 - 06/18/14 at 17:02:30
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Tim-G-London wrote on 05/08/14 at 11:45:16:
Recently in vs Cambridgeshire U-160, my  opponent replied 2...f6 saying he'd read it was best but had no idea why!


I thought it had been known for years. Morozevich played it in 1993 against Michael Adams who replied with 3. Bf4. Moro then played 3. .. Nc6 and it was a sort of Chigorin. The other idea is that if 3. Bh4, then you could play Nh6 followed by Nf5. This can then be followed up by .. h5, threatening to trap the Bishop on g3. General chaos ensues as seen in a 1987 game between Gallagher and Crouch. The Adams-Morozevich idea had also been played in 1986 by Mike Yeo against Julian Hodgson himself. You gain a tempo of sorts against the position 1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 Nc6, so the idea  appeals to those specialising in the Chigorin.

I used to follow Tromp theory in the 1990s and a bit beyond. I eventually gave it up because it became too much of a struggle frequently playing with two knights and a bishop against two bishops and a knight. In d4 d5 positions where you don't take on f6, it's difficult to make progress as your position whilst solid doesn't really go anywhere.

That said, Tromp theory gets weirder by the year, so it's not really an opening that can work as a reserve weapon.
  
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Tim-G-London
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #4 - 05/08/14 at 11:45:16
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I recommend 2. Bg5 the pseudo Trompowsky. This has 1 big advantage which is this: little theory exists, and what there is ppl tend not to know. So v quickly one is new territory. Recently in vs Cambridgeshire U-160, my  opponent replied 2...f6 saying he'd read it was best but had no idea why!By move 5 I think we were in totally uncharted territory  Roll Eyes
  

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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #3 - 04/16/14 at 21:40:16
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Mtal wrote on 02/12/14 at 21:17:30:
I was wondering what my fellow d pawn plays play against d5? For myself I am not sure what to do. Should I play a queens gambit (with mknight on f3 which rule out some exchange lines.) Or try one of the.colle's (but which one is best vs d5)? Also should I allow the slow slav  (I never seems to get good games with it and hard to hack against it)? Or maybe there is another route to try? Thanks.


I thought you were playing the London System?

I currently play the zuketort, but am thinking of giving the Veresov a go.
  

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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #2 - 04/16/14 at 16:35:16
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Well its depends on what is your current rating...and what type of position do you like..I personally like colle against d5 and white might not have any problem against d5...The only problem with colle is when black starts with Nf6
  
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Re: what do you play against d5?
Reply #1 - 02/14/14 at 22:27:28
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Blackmar Diemer  Cheesy
  
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