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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) best line against French defense for below 1600 pl (Read 44061 times)
RdC
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #65 - 04/27/15 at 08:52:30
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/04/15 at 13:39:35:
By contrast, the French Advance scores very poorly for White  at this level(47.2%).


Black's usual plan of piling up on the d4 pawn is a straightforward idea to play which seizes the initiative unless White finds a good way, sacrificing it perhaps, to counter this pressure.

The Kings Indian Attack with 1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Qe2 or 3. Nd2 has the advantage of giving White a template for the next ten or more moves, even if a somewhat stereotyped one. But we are talking about players under 1600.
  
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Pale Horse, Pale Rider
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #64 - 04/27/15 at 07:09:23
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CanadianClub wrote on 03/03/15 at 08:29:32:
- 40% 3.Nd2
- 30% exchange
- 20% Advance Variation, usually 6.a3 vs my 5...Bd7
- 10% rest of options (very few Nc3, and very few KIA surprisingly)



Just another reason to play 3. Nc3. It's a very good move (argueably the best), the position are rich and interesting. You can play this stuff up to world championship level if you want to. You can learn a lot about space advantage, blocked centres and bishop pairs. And at amateur level the exchange variation is better known.
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #63 - 04/27/15 at 01:10:01
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kylemeister wrote on 02/16/14 at 20:28:08:
I think the usual script for replies to this involves someone recommending the Exchange with 4. c4 and someone else disagreeing with that, but I probably can't recall the rest.

kylemeister, do you have any other prognostications?
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #62 - 04/26/15 at 22:49:09
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Eric, the reason for that is the Exchange Variation is easily the most played line below a certain level. I have a feeling a number of chess coaches actually teach the Exchange variation.

But I do agree, the Exchange Variation is lazy and probably counter-productive to long-term growth.
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #61 - 04/24/15 at 21:27:32
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I basically feel that recommending an improving player take up the Exchange French is a little like recommending that he play 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bc5 5.d3 d6...

I hate how these threads always devolve into discussing the merits of the Exchange.
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #60 - 03/04/15 at 13:39:35
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I just did a database check of games played between players rated 1000-1600.

The most common move for white when faced with the French is the Exchange. After 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.ed5 ed5 4.Bd3 (white's most common response) Bd6 (and Black's most common move), the score is 50.5% in my database.

4.c4 does score much better for White (56%).

By contrast, the French Advance scores very poorly for White  at this level(47.2%). I still believe that teaching a student to play the Advance well will help him far more than teaching him to play the Exchange. But I do see the logic of teaching the 4.c4 lines,
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #59 - 03/03/15 at 08:29:32
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I think that below 1600, the exchange french is more likely to result in drawish positions than for people higher rated than this. Beginners don't try different approaches or alternatives. The play straightforward: they see an open files and put their rooks there, so major pieces are going to be retired from the board in the early middlegame, and the symmetrical structure dictates the rest of the game.

Before I started to study carefully the exchange as Black, a lot of my games in that line ended in BvK endgames (or BvB or NvN) with that symmetrical pawns. Theoretically drawish? Of course. A draw? Well, plenty of errors by both sides to make a draw less often than two strong people would got from that positions statistically, for sure !

Lately, lots of people (even below 1600) are playing againt french that 3.c4 lines, with an isolani complex battle arising. And las time I get 3.Nc3 in a "long" OTB game... well I don't remember when it was  Tongue

Lately I am facing (I'm 1800 FIDE playing vs a 1700-2100 FIDE opposition; very hard for me I have to admit):

- 40% 3.Nd2
- 30% exchange
- 20% Advance Variation, usually 6.a3 vs my 5...Bd7
- 10% rest of options (very few Nc3, and very few KIA surprisingly)

Salut,
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #58 - 03/02/15 at 19:44:03
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hmm, it strikes me as obnoxious rather than funny (I somehow think an FM knows that it isn't a guaranteed draw).
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #57 - 03/02/15 at 19:26:00
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I know this match didnt involve anyone under 1600, but Nigel Short's tweet made me laugh and reminded me of this thread...

Nigel Short @nigelshortchess  ·  Mar 1

"My opponent of today (M.Heidrich) discovered that 3.exd5 is not a guaranteed draw in the French Defence #worldsenileteamch"
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #56 - 03/01/15 at 23:04:45
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We are talking about lines for under 1600 players, who are still learning their tactics and basic things.  They should not be focused on the opening.  The Exchange line with c4 is a good way to get things started without having to learn much theory.  The line has been played by strong players, such as Maurice Ashley, Normunds Miezis, and Josh Waitzkin.  And what is wrong with exchanging information that might be useful to people who disagree with you and want to give this line a try?  Are you going to shut down discussion of the Exchange Variation out of mere prejudice?

Someone recently pointed out this article on the Exchange Variation with c4 by Minev from 2012:
http://www.thechesslibrary.com/articles/MiniLesson024.pdf
He thinks it's interesting, though he admits it's double-edged.  But what is wrong with playing this way for those just starting out?

If Black plays 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd4 exd4 4.c4 dxc4?! (you'd be surprised how many players do this, especially under 1600 players) 5.Bxc4 you get an interesting line of the Queen's Gambit Accepted which is discussed by Avrukh in volume 1 of his 1.d4 GM repertoire:
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/products/1/36/grandmaster_repertoire_1_-_1d4_volum...
If you are under 1600, you are likely to get this position quite a bit, which will teach you a lot about how to play positions like this.
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #55 - 02/22/15 at 23:39:53
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Nothing beats 3.Nd2 in terms of simplicity+theoretical challenging line.

-> 3...a6, 3...h6 and such stuff: go 4.Bd3 and 5.Qe2 and in general wait for ...Nf6 in order to play e5+f4.

-> 3...Nf6 4.e5 and 5.Bd3 + Ne2 + Ndf3 and if ...f6 simply take it.

-> 3...c5 4.Ngf3 and if 4...cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nc6 6.Bb5 with the idea to play Bxc6 + c4 and if allowed Qa4 next

Is there really need to learn more than that? No! Is it challenging? Yes!

NO MORE FRENCH EXCHANGE PLEASE  Cheesy
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #54 - 02/22/15 at 20:48:07
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I still disagree with the Exchange Variation for players below 1600. The Advance French is a classic idea that makes good common sense and the moves are easy to understand. I know, that's also true of the Exchange Variation, except that I believe White also has an edge in the Advance variation, which isn't really true in the Exchange lines.

White shouldn't fear Black's preparation, especially against opponents who are rated below 1800.

Teach White the Trojan B sac, and White will win a TON of games in the U1600 sections.
  
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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #53 - 02/21/15 at 06:46:03
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Returning to the subject matter ('What is the best variation against the French Defence for someone rated under 1600?'), I would say the Exchange Variation is the easiest (although I'd recommend 4.Nf3 as it has a tiny bit more sting than 4.c4, especially after 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.c4!), and the Milner-Barry could be good for a very aggressive young player, but the best one is probably 3.Nd2 - it's about as safe as you can get with enough flexibility to get positions you like, especially against 3...Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 which is the main continuation at club level from my experience.

3.Nc3 is also good, but I think 3...Bb4 4.Nge2 is as recommendable an Anti-Winawer for club players as 4.exd5. Some will argue that it's a pawn sacrifice, but it's very instructive to learn how to play when Black hangs on to the pawn for grim death. And against 3...Nf6, I'd recommend either 4.Bg5 or 4.e5 Nfd7 5.Nf3, though in the case of the latter move order one could argue that the Two Knights Move Order (1.e4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3) could be used as a means of dodging the Winawer.

I have recommended the approach given in 'The Fighting French' to sub-1600 players before, and it is a reasonable shortcut.
  

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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #52 - 02/21/15 at 05:01:09
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MaxJudd wrote on 02/21/15 at 03:31:22:
chandrashekharkoravi wrote on 09/23/14 at 05:56:12:

 


It seems that chesscafe wensite (and part of it, opening lanes) had a new 2.0 economic model...because we need to subscribe for reading such an old chess pdf.

I am quite ok with this...just noticed the change today...and admit i read Gary Lane analysis...last time was years ago.


  

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Re: best line against French defense for below 1600 pl
Reply #51 - 02/21/15 at 03:31:22
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chandrashekharkoravi wrote on 09/23/14 at 05:56:12:
The Exchange variation with Bf4,Nc3,Qd2 and 0-0-0 as explained in http://www.chesscafe.com/text/abby20.pdf also looks a good try...but I think this line will work till a certain level, afterwards you have to change the line as it does not guaranttee any advantage for white...but still a playable and interesting option


This looks really easy and fun for either side.
  
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