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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Playing against the English (Read 3417 times)
BPaulsen
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #15 - 03/05/14 at 16:13:43
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gewgaw wrote on 03/04/14 at 11:17:05:
[quote author=1F0D3C28312E38335D0 link=1393890997/3#3 date=1393908146]
Which setup do you recommend against 1.c4 Nf6 2.g3 e6 3.Bg2 and if 3....d5 4.Nf3?

4...dxc4 since I prefer 4...Bb4+ in the Catalan proper.
  

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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #14 - 03/05/14 at 14:10:28
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Pingudon wrote on 03/03/14 at 23:56:37:
So far I had been playing semi slav so I did not mnd playing against the English. But know I want to play nimzoindian and I need some thing to play against the English. Do you know a book for black about the English .

Regarding your question, you seem not worried about 1.Nf3. Knowing what you play against it may help us to give you better advice about what to play against 1.c4.

If you have a problem against both 1.Nf3 and 1.c4... I'd say you're not the only Nimzo-amateur player with a problem to meet these openings!
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #13 - 03/05/14 at 14:06:51
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TalJechin wrote on 03/05/14 at 13:49:27:
Oops, forgot that Nf3 wasn't there yet! Judging from recent games with big names like Morozevich and Bartel on the Black side, I'd guess that Black has found out how to play it with either Nf6 or f5. The stats are probably leaning heavily towards White ten years ago, when a3 was a new approach.


You could be right, I don't know--I've played this way as White a lot (mostly in online blitz games) but I'm just winging it.  The 4...f5 approach is probably no worse than playing some "regular" Dutch positions. 

In practice I think that White's chances are better than in Dutch or Queen's Indian move orders, though; it's hard to find a good job for the f8-bishop and Black can't play an early ...Nf6-e4 to ease his position as he can in the Queen's Indian.  I'm not sure how much Morozevich's endorsement counts, considering the other junk he's played Wink.  But it's chess.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #12 - 03/05/14 at 13:49:27
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ErictheRed wrote on 03/05/14 at 12:33:21:
TalJechin wrote on 03/05/14 at 10:12:44:
4...f5 looks fine to me, Greenfeld could be one role model for Black. And 4...Nf6 is a 6A5D464C5B474A7D4A4B2F03, how can that be bad?


It's not a Queen's Indian yet because White hasn't played Ng1-f3.  So 1.c4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.Nc3 e6 4.a3 Nf6 5.d5!? is a possibility that scores rather well in the database, but I don't know any theory.  Maybe White should accept the 6F5A57715E585352553B04 transposition?

I've had the position after 4...f5, and while it's certainly a game of chess, I prefer White again after 5.d5!?.  Playable for Black, however.


Oops, forgot that Nf3 wasn't there yet! Judging from recent games with big names like Morozevich and Bartel on the Black side, I'd guess that Black has found out how to play it with either Nf6 or f5. The stats are probably leaning heavily towards White ten years ago, when a3 was a new approach.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #11 - 03/05/14 at 12:33:21
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TalJechin wrote on 03/05/14 at 10:12:44:
4...f5 looks fine to me, Greenfeld could be one role model for Black. And 4...Nf6 is a 6F5A57715E585352553B05, how can that be bad?


It's not a Queen's Indian yet because White hasn't played Ng1-f3.  So 1.c4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.Nc3 e6 4.a3 Nf6 5.d5!? is a possibility that scores rather well in the database, but I don't know any theory.  Maybe White should accept the QID transposition?

I've had the position after 4...f5, and while it's certainly a game of chess, I prefer White again after 5.d5!?.  Playable for Black, however.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #10 - 03/05/14 at 10:12:44
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MNb wrote on 03/05/14 at 09:48:13:
TalJechin wrote on 03/04/14 at 09:49:15:
You could try 1...e6 and 2...b6, meeting the English Opening with the English Defence Smiley

It's an interesting suggestion as after 1.c4 White cannot reach the critical 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.c4 e6 4.Bd3 anymore. Still I'm not sure how attractive 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 b6 3.a3 Bb7 4.d4 is.


I know that Odessky didn't like 3.a3, but to me it sounded a bit spoiled, it defuses Black's more tactical ideas, but it's still a game with some quite original play. 4...f5 looks fine to me, Greenfeld could be one role model for Black. And 4...Nf6 is a QID, how can that be bad?
  
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #9 - 03/05/14 at 09:48:13
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TalJechin wrote on 03/04/14 at 09:49:15:
You could try 1...e6 and 2...b6, meeting the English Opening with the English Defence Smiley

It's an interesting suggestion as after 1.c4 White cannot reach the critical 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.c4 e6 4.Bd3 anymore. Still I'm not sure how attractive 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 b6 3.a3 Bb7 4.d4 is.
  

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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #8 - 03/04/14 at 23:13:11
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The old Beating the Flank Openings has a major part on 1. c4 e5.

However, the main thing with building a repertoire against the English based on 1 ...e5 is that you can't play that against 1. Nf3 2. c4 of course!
  
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #7 - 03/04/14 at 19:00:21
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Some good advice already.  The only thing I'd add is to give up the idea of getting a Nimzo-Indian on the board, because it's extremely unlikely to happen via a 1.c4 move order.  So I'd pick a unique defense to 1.c4 and just do the work, whether 1...c5, 1...e5, 1...b6, or a move order subtlety like Bryan's 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e5.
  
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #6 - 03/04/14 at 11:17:05
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BPaulsen wrote on 03/04/14 at 04:42:26:
I've been a Nimzo-Indian player since I discovered chess theory. For a long, long time I have met 1.c4 with 1...Nf6. 2.Nc3 is met with 2...e5, and 2.g3/2.Nf3 with 2...e6.

Which setup do you recommend against 1.c4 Nf6 2.g3 e6 3.Bg2 and if 3....d5 4.Nf3?

That tends to mesh pretty cleanly while also dealing with 1.Nf3 move orders (again, 1...Nf6).

Alternatively, just play 1...e5 if you don't want transpositions, or 1...c5 if the symmetrical is your thing. You don't need a book so much as a database and some individual work.

  

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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #5 - 03/04/14 at 10:54:27
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TalJechin wrote on 03/04/14 at 09:49:15:
You could try 1...e6 and 2...b6, meeting the English Opening with the English Defence Smiley

Thematically, it has a lot of ideas from the Nimzo, 4174795F70767D7C7B15010, Classical Dutch, plus some mind boggling A40 play! Odessky wrote a very original book about it (check the forum for opinions on it), but other, older, sources are few and hard to find by now.


Altermans book "The Alterman Gambit guide : Black Gambits 1" covers 1 c4 b6!? in the chapter "The English Defence Gambit" and is a realy intresting combatable line vs english.
  
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #4 - 03/04/14 at 09:49:15
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You could try 1...e6 and 2...b6, meeting the English Opening with the English Defence Smiley

Thematically, it has a lot of ideas from the Nimzo, QID, Classical Dutch, plus some mind boggling A40 play! Odessky wrote a very original book about it (check the forum for opinions on it), but other, older, sources are few and hard to find by now.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #3 - 03/04/14 at 04:42:26
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I've been a Nimzo-Indian player since I discovered chess theory. For a long, long time I have met 1.c4 with 1...Nf6. 2.Nc3 is met with 2...e5, and 2.g3/2.Nf3 with 2...e6.

That tends to mesh pretty cleanly while also dealing with 1.Nf3 move orders (again, 1...Nf6).

Alternatively, just play 1...e5 if you don't want transpositions, or 1...c5 if the symmetrical is your thing. You don't need a book so much as a database and some individual work.
  

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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #2 - 03/04/14 at 01:03:43
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2 of my favourite Nimzo players Karpov and Adams play 1...e5 against the English. Bologan published an excellent dvd last year for Chessbase recommending 1...e5. I can't think of any standalone repertoire book for 1...e5. Opening for Black According to Karpov covers 1...e5, but it also covers other openings such as the Caro-Kann and Queen's Indian, which may not interest you. If you're a Sicilian player 1...c5 is a good choice as it can double up against 1.Nf3 too. Palliser recommended the Symmetrical English in his Beating Unusual Chess Openings book. Bologan also published a dvd on 1...c5 for Chessbase that is very good too. Should mention there is a 60min Chessbase dvd by Bojkov covering 1...e5 too, he recommends the 3...d5 set-up against most lines that personally isn't my cup of tea. May be worth getting both if 1...e5 interests you the most. I know you said book recommendations, but I really think those dvds are all you need to get started.
  
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Re: Playing against the English
Reply #1 - 03/04/14 at 00:44:40
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I play 1...e5 on the grounds that the Sicilian Defense is a rotten opening and thus it cannot be good even with an extra tempo. lolz

I don't think there is anything "Nimzo-like" against the English, so in my opinion you have to choose something more or less completely independent.
  

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