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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon (Read 101605 times)
bragesjo
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #61 - 05/21/14 at 09:46:04
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While I dont have the book this thread is about, there are players that plays accelerated Dragon to avoid 9 0-0-0 yugoslav but like to play against 9 Bc4 yugoslav.

  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #60 - 05/21/14 at 07:34:34
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Peter's "starting from scratch" approach has attracted some comment, not all of it favourable. I'm a former accelerated dragon player and here's something I noticed.

Consider the early position after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 4.d4 cd 5.Nd4 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 with as few preconceptions as you can manage, and list some possible 7th moves for White. 7.Qd2 is a move, surely? Especially if you notice that 7...Ng4 8.Nc6 is quite decent for White. There are some 500 games with 7.Qd2 in Mega 2014 (including a particularly poor effort of mine); yes, it scores poorly after 7...OO, but the book buying public would like to understand why. And yet the combined authorial might of Silman & Donaldson, Nielson & Hansen and Greet fail to mention the move at all, not even as a transpositional possibility. Of course no book can cover every move, but for a natural option as early as move seven, I have always thought this was very poor. On the other hand, Peter Lalic covers 7.Qd2 properly - in fact it's the first line in the book.

So, a palpable hit for "starting from scratch", and well done Peter.
  
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IM Andrew Greet
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #59 - 05/20/14 at 13:04:50
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PatzerKing wrote on 05/13/14 at 13:10:52:
Hi Mr. Lalic and Mr. Greet,

first of all thanks to both of you for writing books about the accelerated dragon. After reading the book of Andrew Greet a few years ago I switched to the accelerated dragon because this book is really great (especially for a Starting Out book).
Later on I moved on to the Pirc/Modern complex because I think it offers more winning chances against lower rated players (as a FM I mostly face opponents with 2050-2450 ELO). And this is the starting point for my questions:

a) Do you think that Black really have winning chances against a player rated >2100 ELO in the Maroczy bind? Or is it more +/= with more “=” then “+”?
b) In the Bc4 line do you consider 8…a5 as an equalizer or as a winning try for Black?
c) Do you think the winning chances are better when you switch in the Bc4 from the accelerated dragon to a normal dragon (if possible) avoiding the early 0-0-0 or g4 variation in the classical dragon?

@Andrew Greet: It´s sad that you are “only” an editor for QC now and not writing books anymore. Also your e4-deviation book and “Play the Ruy-Lopez” books are very good (and they give me some headache playing the Pirc/Modern  Sad). I mostly follow your lines against the “minor” lines like Bird, Steinitz,… but in the Worrall I found some variations where I think that White is struggling a bit. But that´s chess and hopefully QC will soon produce a book that solves my “1.e4 e5” problem (e.g. in the Scotch or publishing a Ruy Lopez book for White).  Roll Eyes

I wish you both the best with all your books you are working on!


Thanks for the positive comments. To answer your questions:

a) I used to have a lot of success playing for a win in weekend opens using the 7...Ng4 system in conjunction with Larsen's plan involving a later ...g5. However, it's a bit risky though if White knows what he's doing. The main Maroczy lines are more solid, but not great for Black to play for a win. In my experience it's best to have a few different systems up your sleeve and vary your approach depending on the opponent.

b) Kind of both. In theoretical terms Black is fighting for equality, but the positions are complicated enough to offer winning chances if White goes wrong. I'm a little sceptical of Peter's recommendation of 9.0-0 a4, as he admits that Black is objectively worse while the practical results have been horrible.

c) You should make up your own mind on this. I personally don't see much point in transposing to a mainstream Yugoslav Attack, but if you fancy trying it then go for it. Of course, if you happy playing those positions then you might just want to switch to the Dragon outright to avoid the Maroczy.

As for the Ruy Lopez, it's true that the Worrall is not the last word in fighting for an opening advantage, but I enjoyed working on it and think I made a useful contribution to the theory. There is still a book's worth of material (240 pages) on variations before 5.Qe2.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #58 - 05/18/14 at 14:12:05
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Bibs wrote on 05/18/14 at 02:24:45:
knowledge is not built upon. Comparing with Silman/Donaldson, this is the case.

That's to be expected. It's one thing to do independent research; it's another not to compare it with existing knowledge afterwards.
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #57 - 05/18/14 at 06:17:13
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Bibs wrote on 05/18/14 at 02:24:45:
The problem with the author not referring to any existing material is that knowledge is not built upon. Comparing with Silman/Donaldson, this is the case.

Long ago I asked an author why the bibliography in his new book was lacking so many relevant titles. He said he couldn't afford to buy them. Urks. Are there no work-houses libraries?

But I cannot understand the publishers. They could routinely include a sentence in their book contracts, to the effect that they expect a "reasonable effort to research the topic" from the author and that the author has to credit his sources properly.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #56 - 05/18/14 at 02:24:45
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I have been having a look through the Gurgenidze section.
Politely, not being too blunt, it is very disappointing. The problem with the author not referring to any existing material is that knowledge is not built upon. Comparing with Silman/Donaldson, this is the case.
In chess as in academia, one refers to the existing material to situate the commentary one is providing, and to extend knowledge beyond the previous.
Regarding Jupp's comment, the author appears to be 20 years old and 2161. Not tabula rasa, no, but also not very highly rated either.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #55 - 05/17/14 at 06:12:06
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Entertaining thread this. I like the excerpt and the writing style.
Looking forward to the book!
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #54 - 05/16/14 at 11:55:48
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I received the book yesterday and my first impression is that it is a very good and useful book for the average club-player like me.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #53 - 05/13/14 at 15:40:34
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Well surely Black's winning chances are minimal when playing the Gurgenidze in a traditional way against e.g. a >2100 player who is happy with a draw, due to Nd5 stuff (Petrosian-Fischer etc. etc.).  I'm sometimes reminded of IM David Strauss's remark from a couple of decades ago:  "Long experience has taught me the secret of playing Maroczy Bind positions for a win: remember always to be White."
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #52 - 05/13/14 at 13:10:52
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Hi Mr. Lalic and Mr. Greet,

first of all thanks to both of you for writing books about the accelerated dragon. After reading the book of Andrew Greet a few years ago I switched to the accelerated dragon because this book is really great (especially for a Starting Out book).
Later on I moved on to the Pirc/Modern complex because I think it offers more winning chances against lower rated players (as a FM I mostly face opponents with 2050-2450 ELO). And this is the starting point for my questions:

a) Do you think that Black really have winning chances against a player rated >2100 ELO in the Maroczy bind? Or is it more +/= with more “=” then “+”?
b) In the Bc4 line do you consider 8…a5 as an equalizer or as a winning try for Black?
c) Do you think the winning chances are better when you switch in the Bc4 from the accelerated dragon to a normal dragon (if possible) avoiding the early 0-0-0 or g4 variation in the classical dragon?

@Andrew Greet: It´s sad that you are “only” an editor for QC now and not writing books anymore. Also your e4-deviation book and “Play the Ruy-Lopez” books are very good (and they give me some headache playing the Pirc/Modern  Sad). I mostly follow your lines against the “minor” lines like Bird, Steinitz,… but in the Worrall I found some variations where I think that White is struggling a bit. But that´s chess and hopefully QC will soon produce a book that solves my “1.e4 e5” problem (e.g. in the Scotch or publishing a Ruy Lopez book for White).  Roll Eyes

I wish you both the best with all your books you are working on!
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #51 - 05/09/14 at 16:47:19
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RoleyPoley wrote on 05/09/14 at 16:28:57:
brabo wrote on 05/09/14 at 06:47:21:
Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 11:18:36:
So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

Suppose you have studied a variation giving an advantage for black so you start to look for an improvement for white at move x. Well you can win a lot of time if you would know in advance (e.g. by reading literature) that black can also improve his play at move x-1. Personally I don't find it useful to invest time in searching an improvement for white at move x if afterwards it is anyway redundant due to the improvement for black at move x-1.

The time spent for searching an improvement for white at move x could have been used for something more useful.

Above example happens countless times if you skip on purpose available knowledge. That is why I earlier stated that likely the analyzing time could be reduced with 90% by consulting in advance available knowledge and you still achieve the same quality.


If you are not using literature, why would you necessarily be looking for moves only after x? It's plausible that you would also be looking at moves x-1 or x-2 for example yourself isnt it?

Of course, that is exactly my point. Without literature you will be analyzing more randomly as you are more guessing what is critical or not. It is the same how engines analyze. You can use a random algorithm for analyzing but an algorithm finding quicker the critical lines will be much more performant (i guess 10x more performant in case of using literature in advance)
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #50 - 05/09/14 at 16:28:57
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brabo wrote on 05/09/14 at 06:47:21:
Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 11:18:36:
So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

Suppose you have studied a variation giving an advantage for black so you start to look for an improvement for white at move x. Well you can win a lot of time if you would know in advance (e.g. by reading literature) that black can also improve his play at move x-1. Personally I don't find it useful to invest time in searching an improvement for white at move x if afterwards it is anyway redundant due to the improvement for black at move x-1.

The time spent for searching an improvement for white at move x could have been used for something more useful.

Above example happens countless times if you skip on purpose available knowledge. That is why I earlier stated that likely the analyzing time could be reduced with 90% by consulting in advance available knowledge and you still achieve the same quality.


If you are not using literature, why would you necessarily be looking for moves only after x? It's plausible that you would also be looking at moves x-1 or x-2 for example yourself isnt it?
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #49 - 05/09/14 at 06:47:21
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Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 11:18:36:
So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

Suppose you have studied a variation giving an advantage for black so you start to look for an improvement for white at move x. Well you can win a lot of time if you would know in advance (e.g. by reading literature) that black can also improve his play at move x-1. Personally I don't find it useful to invest time in searching an improvement for white at move x if afterwards it is anyway redundant due to the improvement for black at move x-1.

The time spent for searching an improvement for white at move x could have been used for something more useful.

Above example happens countless times if you skip on purpose available knowledge. That is why I earlier stated that likely the analyzing time could be reduced with 90% by consulting in advance available knowledge and you still achieve the same quality.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #48 - 05/08/14 at 21:46:42
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Thanks, Jupp53; you phrased it better than I did! You hit the nail on the head.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #47 - 05/08/14 at 21:30:39
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A player from Peter's level does know a lot. So he is not 'tabula rasa' about a system he plays. Not taking books out of the bookshelf while writing and analysing is something else than not knowing what has been analysed before.

Brabo, we are not that far different as you tried to take it. I said nothing against learning from reading and listening. Why should I discuss in that case with anyone?
  

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