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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon (Read 47226 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #76 - 07/25/14 at 18:22:48
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So basically Bekemann (who incidentally co-authored 1. e4 siegt!, i.e. "1. e4 wins" ...) likes the book, and Peter's fresh youthfulness.

Re Donaldson:
"Back in 1981 I met a young chess fanatic named John Donaldson.  After a brief talk I discovered that we shared a mutual fascination -- we both had a deep love for the Accelerated Dragon."

--Silman in the introduction to the first (1993) edition of their joint work
  
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Peter Lalic
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #75 - 07/25/14 at 17:44:29
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Here is the first review of the book, albeit in German:
http://www.bdf-fernschachbund.de/service/rezensionen/2014/rezens2014.htm#playthe...

Here is John Donaldson's review from Jeremy Silman's website:
http://www.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Play-the-Accelerated-Dragon-76p3869.htm

In 1993 (my mistake) they collaborated on their own Accelerated Dragon book. That might explain why he analyses the actual recommendations in such depth (as opposed to the quality of writing). My friend told me that John doesn't normally do this, and was thus surprised by his review.
« Last Edit: 07/25/14 at 19:00:29 by Peter Lalic »  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #74 - 05/25/14 at 17:19:36
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kylemeister wrote on 05/25/14 at 16:25:18:
Regarding ...Nh6 and (eventual) ...f5, books I'm aware of have mostly differed on whether it should lead to += or ±.  I'm thinking the Furman-Spassky version has long been commonly given as ±.

Martin has a nice DVD (Foxy) about Nh6 and f7-f5, including the Furman-Spassky game.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #73 - 05/25/14 at 16:25:18
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Regarding ...Nh6 and (eventual) ...f5, books I'm aware of have mostly differed on whether it should lead to += or ±.  I'm thinking the Furman-Spassky version has long been commonly given as ±.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #72 - 05/25/14 at 15:30:27
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I think Greet's book is a much, much better "starting out" book, hence the title. Wink For me it's the best "starting out" book I have ever read.

I find Lalic's book a welcome addition, especially because of the verbal explanations and the (game-)references of minor moves made at (my) club-level.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #71 - 05/25/14 at 15:21:52
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According to Greet 7.Be2 d6, postponing f7-f5, is better.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #70 - 05/25/14 at 14:18:57
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TalJechin wrote on 05/25/14 at 10:12:28:
he mentions is one game with ...Nh6, ...0-0 and f7-f5 (Furman-Spassky, 1957) which looks like an enterprising idea, but he doesn't give any details on it. Presumably there's something wrong with it if it was only popular in the 1950s...

Because of "few things are as good as reviving a half forgotten idea with a bad reputation" I have looked at this - also because it looks like fun at first sight. Alas 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.c4 Bg7 6.Be3 Nh6 (inserting d6 7.Nc3 and now Nh6 hardly improves) 7.Be2 f5 8.exf5 is just good for White.
If Black doesn't mind some work it might be an idea to combine the Kalashnikov (and I'm waiting for TonyRo's book indeed) with the Accelerated Dragon: 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3/3.Nge2 g6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Bg7 etc.
« Last Edit: 05/25/14 at 19:58:13 by MNb »  

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TalJechin
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Re: Lalic 2014 Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #69 - 05/25/14 at 10:18:29
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gewgaw wrote on 05/24/14 at 18:27:37:
TalJechin wrote on 05/23/14 at 12:13:42:
Got curious and got the book. I used to play it a long time ago, and in that respect it works fairly well by reminding of useful and typical tactics. It probably works best for former Dragoneers, people mainly playing online blitz, and those who get Angst when opening an Informator!

In a way it reminds me of Facebook, reading the book is like having two people explaining the opening on FB, one is telling you the need to know stuff and the other is interjecting ways for White to go wrong mixed with a lot of references to popular culture, 2˝ Men, Friends etc - it seems the author must be watching a lot of TV!

The are also some new chess terms I hadn't seen before, like "the AC/DC bishop" and "the Marco hop" - I'm perhaps from the wrong age group and country, or maybe it's the author's own terms...

To the group it's aimed at it will probably fill a void in the market and enthuse some new players to take up "the AC/DC". Though, in time they may want to consult a more theoretical source for specific lines.


So, you think this is more a starter book up to elo 1600?


Yeah, it feels like a chatty starting out book, but it can probably be useful up to at least 2000 or higher, depending on the individuals. Not everyone is looking for ready made answers to everything, but prefer just being pointed in the right directions.
  
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TalJechin
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Re: Lalic 2014 Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #68 - 05/25/14 at 10:12:28
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BPaulsen wrote on 05/24/14 at 05:42:57:
TalJechin wrote on 05/23/14 at 12:13:42:
Got curious and got the book. I used to play it a long time ago, and in that respect it works fairly well by reminding of useful and typical tactics. It probably works best for former Dragoneers, people mainly playing online blitz, and those who get Angst when opening an Informator!

In a way it reminds me of Facebook, reading the book is like having two people explaining the opening on FB, one is telling you the need to know stuff and the other is interjecting ways for White to go wrong mixed with a lot of references to popular culture, 2˝ Men, Friends etc - it seems the author must be watching a lot of TV!

The are also some new chess terms I hadn't seen before, like "the AC/DC bishop" and "the Marco hop" - I'm perhaps from the wrong age group and country, or maybe it's the author's own terms...

To the group it's aimed at it will probably fill a void in the market and enthuse some new players to take up "the AC/DC". Though, in time they may want to consult a more theoretical source for specific lines.


How do the recommendations stand up, in your opinion? Specifically the Gurgenidze.

I'm not asking for any specific analysis, just some general thoughts.


Well, his main source on the Maroczy seems to be Tiviakov's dvd.
I played the AD back in the later part of the 80s to early 90s, so it's hard for me to have an opinion - iirc I played ...Ng4, ...Nxd4-e6 back then, or Qa5, a6, Rfc8 etc - without an early Nc6xd4 which is Lalic's main recommendation. Among the alternatives he mentions is one game with ...Nh6, ...0-0 and f7-f5 (Furman-Spassky, 1957) which looks like an enterprising idea, but he doesn't give any details on it. Presumably there's something wrong with it if it was only popular in the 1950s...

Anyway, I doubt I'll be playing the AD in anything more serious than blitz - it's probably the easiest open Sicilian to learn and play, but gets a bit monotonous when you play it too much.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014 Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #67 - 05/24/14 at 18:27:37
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TalJechin wrote on 05/23/14 at 12:13:42:
Got curious and got the book. I used to play it a long time ago, and in that respect it works fairly well by reminding of useful and typical tactics. It probably works best for former Dragoneers, people mainly playing online blitz, and those who get Angst when opening an Informator!

In a way it reminds me of Facebook, reading the book is like having two people explaining the opening on FB, one is telling you the need to know stuff and the other is interjecting ways for White to go wrong mixed with a lot of references to popular culture, 2˝ Men, Friends etc - it seems the author must be watching a lot of TV!

The are also some new chess terms I hadn't seen before, like "the AC/DC bishop" and "the Marco hop" - I'm perhaps from the wrong age group and country, or maybe it's the author's own terms...

To the group it's aimed at it will probably fill a void in the market and enthuse some new players to take up "the AC/DC". Though, in time they may want to consult a more theoretical source for specific lines.


So, you think this is more a starter book up to elo 1600?
  

The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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Re: Lalic 2014 Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #66 - 05/24/14 at 05:42:57
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TalJechin wrote on 05/23/14 at 12:13:42:
Got curious and got the book. I used to play it a long time ago, and in that respect it works fairly well by reminding of useful and typical tactics. It probably works best for former Dragoneers, people mainly playing online blitz, and those who get Angst when opening an Informator!

In a way it reminds me of Facebook, reading the book is like having two people explaining the opening on FB, one is telling you the need to know stuff and the other is interjecting ways for White to go wrong mixed with a lot of references to popular culture, 2˝ Men, Friends etc - it seems the author must be watching a lot of TV!

The are also some new chess terms I hadn't seen before, like "the AC/DC bishop" and "the Marco hop" - I'm perhaps from the wrong age group and country, or maybe it's the author's own terms...

To the group it's aimed at it will probably fill a void in the market and enthuse some new players to take up "the AC/DC". Though, in time they may want to consult a more theoretical source for specific lines.


How do the recommendations stand up, in your opinion? Specifically the Gurgenidze.

I'm not asking for any specific analysis, just some general thoughts.
  

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Re: Lalic 2014 Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #65 - 05/24/14 at 02:35:14
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TalJechin wrote on 05/23/14 at 12:13:42:
The are also some new chess terms I hadn't seen before, like "the AC/DC bishop" and "the Marco hop" - I'm perhaps from the wrong age group and country, or maybe it's the author's own terms...


The term "Marco hop" was used by Andy Soltis in Pawn Structure Chess.  Not sure if it was original with Soltis, nor do I know where "AC/DC bishop" might come from.
  

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Re: Lalic 2014 Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #64 - 05/23/14 at 12:18:49
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nope, removing the "." in the title didn't help.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014 Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #63 - 05/23/14 at 12:13:42
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Got curious and got the book. I used to play it a long time ago, and in that respect it works fairly well by reminding of useful and typical tactics. It probably works best for former Dragoneers, people mainly playing online blitz, and those who get Angst when opening an Informator!

In a way it reminds me of Facebook, reading the book is like having two people explaining the opening on FB, one is telling you the need to know stuff and the other is interjecting ways for White to go wrong mixed with a lot of references to popular culture, 2˝ Men, Friends etc - it seems the author must be watching a lot of TV!

The are also some new chess terms I hadn't seen before, like "the AC/DC bishop" and "the Marco hop" - I'm perhaps from the wrong age group and country, or maybe it's the author's own terms...

To the group it's aimed at it will probably fill a void in the market and enthuse some new players to take up "the AC/DC". Though, in time they may want to consult a more theoretical source for specific lines.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #62 - 05/21/14 at 19:01:08
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Silman+Donaldson give not 7.Qd2 followed by 8.f3 but this line is still in the book from the 7.f3 and 8.Qd2 move order where 7..0-0 and 8..d5! are given.

So ok 7.Qd2 is not mentionned but the final point is here... Personnaly I like this book a lot but it's for someone who likes variations more than words. I still use it from time to time even if it's outdated in the 0-0 Uogele and in some 3.Qxd4 lines of the Hyper accelerated Dragon.

I have bought Greet's book but sold it soon after because it didn't learn me anything new beside a few things. I don't say it was a bad book but I speak as an "advanced" player on the Accelerated/Hyper Accelerated Dragon. For starters it seemed very good.

I am surprised that Peter Lalic wrote a book on the subject because: He is lower rated than me, his rating is not very high, and it seems he has not a big experience/study with the accelerated dragon (some games played on 2013) and his study was limited to a database/computer for his book.

I am always sceptikal when a Grandmaster write a book about a subject he don't know before his book. I am Sceptikal about non-master books too but sometimes they know their subject very well or they compensate with a good correspondance play on the subject or their deep homework.

Here Peter Lalic has nothing of that beside maybe a deep homework (but someone incomplete because of his method).

So to take his defense I imagine it may be a good book for Amateurs but I don't imagine it's very useful for a 2000+ who have studied the Accelerated Dragon with other sources. Amateurs may wonder what his book has more to begin compared as a book like Greet's one.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #61 - 05/21/14 at 10:46:04
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While I dont have the book this thread is about, there are players that plays accelerated Dragon to avoid 9 0-0-0 yugoslav but like to play against 9 Bc4 yugoslav.

  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #60 - 05/21/14 at 08:34:34
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Peter's "starting from scratch" approach has attracted some comment, not all of it favourable. I'm a former accelerated dragon player and here's something I noticed.

Consider the early position after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 4.d4 cd 5.Nd4 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 with as few preconceptions as you can manage, and list some possible 7th moves for White. 7.Qd2 is a move, surely? Especially if you notice that 7...Ng4 8.Nc6 is quite decent for White. There are some 500 games with 7.Qd2 in Mega 2014 (including a particularly poor effort of mine); yes, it scores poorly after 7...OO, but the book buying public would like to understand why. And yet the combined authorial might of Silman & Donaldson, Nielson & Hansen and Greet fail to mention the move at all, not even as a transpositional possibility. Of course no book can cover every move, but for a natural option as early as move seven, I have always thought this was very poor. On the other hand, Peter Lalic covers 7.Qd2 properly - in fact it's the first line in the book.

So, a palpable hit for "starting from scratch", and well done Peter.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #59 - 05/20/14 at 14:04:50
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PatzerKing wrote on 05/13/14 at 14:10:52:
Hi Mr. Lalic and Mr. Greet,

first of all thanks to both of you for writing books about the accelerated dragon. After reading the book of Andrew Greet a few years ago I switched to the accelerated dragon because this book is really great (especially for a Starting Out book).
Later on I moved on to the Pirc/Modern complex because I think it offers more winning chances against lower rated players (as a FM I mostly face opponents with 2050-2450 ELO). And this is the starting point for my questions:

a) Do you think that Black really have winning chances against a player rated >2100 ELO in the Maroczy bind? Or is it more +/= with more “=” then “+”?
b) In the Bc4 line do you consider 8…a5 as an equalizer or as a winning try for Black?
c) Do you think the winning chances are better when you switch in the Bc4 from the accelerated dragon to a normal dragon (if possible) avoiding the early 0-0-0 or g4 variation in the classical dragon?

@Andrew Greet: It´s sad that you are “only” an editor for QC now and not writing books anymore. Also your e4-deviation book and “Play the Ruy-Lopez” books are very good (and they give me some headache playing the Pirc/Modern  Sad). I mostly follow your lines against the “minor” lines like Bird, Steinitz,… but in the Worrall I found some variations where I think that White is struggling a bit. But that´s chess and hopefully QC will soon produce a book that solves my “1.e4 e5” problem (e.g. in the Scotch or publishing a Ruy Lopez book for White).  Roll Eyes

I wish you both the best with all your books you are working on!


Thanks for the positive comments. To answer your questions:

a) I used to have a lot of success playing for a win in weekend opens using the 7...Ng4 system in conjunction with Larsen's plan involving a later ...g5. However, it's a bit risky though if White knows what he's doing. The main Maroczy lines are more solid, but not great for Black to play for a win. In my experience it's best to have a few different systems up your sleeve and vary your approach depending on the opponent.

b) Kind of both. In theoretical terms Black is fighting for equality, but the positions are complicated enough to offer winning chances if White goes wrong. I'm a little sceptical of Peter's recommendation of 9.0-0 a4, as he admits that Black is objectively worse while the practical results have been horrible.

c) You should make up your own mind on this. I personally don't see much point in transposing to a mainstream Yugoslav Attack, but if you fancy trying it then go for it. Of course, if you happy playing those positions then you might just want to switch to the Dragon outright to avoid the Maroczy.

As for the Ruy Lopez, it's true that the Worrall is not the last word in fighting for an opening advantage, but I enjoyed working on it and think I made a useful contribution to the theory. There is still a book's worth of material (240 pages) on variations before 5.Qe2.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #58 - 05/18/14 at 15:12:05
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Bibs wrote on 05/18/14 at 03:24:45:
knowledge is not built upon. Comparing with Silman/Donaldson, this is the case.

That's to be expected. It's one thing to do independent research; it's another not to compare it with existing knowledge afterwards.
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #57 - 05/18/14 at 07:17:13
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Bibs wrote on 05/18/14 at 03:24:45:
The problem with the author not referring to any existing material is that knowledge is not built upon. Comparing with Silman/Donaldson, this is the case.

Long ago I asked an author why the bibliography in his new book was lacking so many relevant titles. He said he couldn't afford to buy them. Urks. Are there no work-houses libraries?

But I cannot understand the publishers. They could routinely include a sentence in their book contracts, to the effect that they expect a "reasonable effort to research the topic" from the author and that the author has to credit his sources properly.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #56 - 05/18/14 at 03:24:45
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I have been having a look through the Gurgenidze section.
Politely, not being too blunt, it is very disappointing. The problem with the author not referring to any existing material is that knowledge is not built upon. Comparing with Silman/Donaldson, this is the case.
In chess as in academia, one refers to the existing material to situate the commentary one is providing, and to extend knowledge beyond the previous.
Regarding Jupp's comment, the author appears to be 20 years old and 2161. Not tabula rasa, no, but also not very highly rated either.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #55 - 05/17/14 at 07:12:06
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Entertaining thread this. I like the excerpt and the writing style.
Looking forward to the book!
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #54 - 05/16/14 at 12:55:48
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I received the book yesterday and my first impression is that it is a very good and useful book for the average club-player like me.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #53 - 05/13/14 at 16:40:34
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Well surely Black's winning chances are minimal when playing the Gurgenidze in a traditional way against e.g. a >2100 player who is happy with a draw, due to Nd5 stuff (Petrosian-Fischer etc. etc.).  I'm sometimes reminded of IM David Strauss's remark from a couple of decades ago:  "Long experience has taught me the secret of playing Maroczy Bind positions for a win: remember always to be White."
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #52 - 05/13/14 at 14:10:52
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Hi Mr. Lalic and Mr. Greet,

first of all thanks to both of you for writing books about the accelerated dragon. After reading the book of Andrew Greet a few years ago I switched to the accelerated dragon because this book is really great (especially for a Starting Out book).
Later on I moved on to the Pirc/Modern complex because I think it offers more winning chances against lower rated players (as a FM I mostly face opponents with 2050-2450 ELO). And this is the starting point for my questions:

a) Do you think that Black really have winning chances against a player rated >2100 ELO in the Maroczy bind? Or is it more +/= with more “=” then “+”?
b) In the Bc4 line do you consider 8…a5 as an equalizer or as a winning try for Black?
c) Do you think the winning chances are better when you switch in the Bc4 from the accelerated dragon to a normal dragon (if possible) avoiding the early 0-0-0 or g4 variation in the classical dragon?

@Andrew Greet: It´s sad that you are “only” an editor for QC now and not writing books anymore. Also your e4-deviation book and “Play the Ruy-Lopez” books are very good (and they give me some headache playing the Pirc/Modern  Sad). I mostly follow your lines against the “minor” lines like Bird, Steinitz,… but in the Worrall I found some variations where I think that White is struggling a bit. But that´s chess and hopefully QC will soon produce a book that solves my “1.e4 e5” problem (e.g. in the Scotch or publishing a Ruy Lopez book for White).  Roll Eyes

I wish you both the best with all your books you are working on!
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #51 - 05/09/14 at 17:47:19
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RoleyPoley wrote on 05/09/14 at 17:28:57:
brabo wrote on 05/09/14 at 07:47:21:
Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 12:18:36:
So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

Suppose you have studied a variation giving an advantage for black so you start to look for an improvement for white at move x. Well you can win a lot of time if you would know in advance (e.g. by reading literature) that black can also improve his play at move x-1. Personally I don't find it useful to invest time in searching an improvement for white at move x if afterwards it is anyway redundant due to the improvement for black at move x-1.

The time spent for searching an improvement for white at move x could have been used for something more useful.

Above example happens countless times if you skip on purpose available knowledge. That is why I earlier stated that likely the analyzing time could be reduced with 90% by consulting in advance available knowledge and you still achieve the same quality.


If you are not using literature, why would you necessarily be looking for moves only after x? It's plausible that you would also be looking at moves x-1 or x-2 for example yourself isnt it?

Of course, that is exactly my point. Without literature you will be analyzing more randomly as you are more guessing what is critical or not. It is the same how engines analyze. You can use a random algorithm for analyzing but an algorithm finding quicker the critical lines will be much more performant (i guess 10x more performant in case of using literature in advance)
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #50 - 05/09/14 at 17:28:57
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brabo wrote on 05/09/14 at 07:47:21:
Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 12:18:36:
So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

Suppose you have studied a variation giving an advantage for black so you start to look for an improvement for white at move x. Well you can win a lot of time if you would know in advance (e.g. by reading literature) that black can also improve his play at move x-1. Personally I don't find it useful to invest time in searching an improvement for white at move x if afterwards it is anyway redundant due to the improvement for black at move x-1.

The time spent for searching an improvement for white at move x could have been used for something more useful.

Above example happens countless times if you skip on purpose available knowledge. That is why I earlier stated that likely the analyzing time could be reduced with 90% by consulting in advance available knowledge and you still achieve the same quality.


If you are not using literature, why would you necessarily be looking for moves only after x? It's plausible that you would also be looking at moves x-1 or x-2 for example yourself isnt it?
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #49 - 05/09/14 at 07:47:21
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Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 12:18:36:
So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

Suppose you have studied a variation giving an advantage for black so you start to look for an improvement for white at move x. Well you can win a lot of time if you would know in advance (e.g. by reading literature) that black can also improve his play at move x-1. Personally I don't find it useful to invest time in searching an improvement for white at move x if afterwards it is anyway redundant due to the improvement for black at move x-1.

The time spent for searching an improvement for white at move x could have been used for something more useful.

Above example happens countless times if you skip on purpose available knowledge. That is why I earlier stated that likely the analyzing time could be reduced with 90% by consulting in advance available knowledge and you still achieve the same quality.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #48 - 05/08/14 at 22:46:42
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Thanks, Jupp53; you phrased it better than I did! You hit the nail on the head.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #47 - 05/08/14 at 22:30:39
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A player from Peter's level does know a lot. So he is not 'tabula rasa' about a system he plays. Not taking books out of the bookshelf while writing and analysing is something else than not knowing what has been analysed before.

Brabo, we are not that far different as you tried to take it. I said nothing against learning from reading and listening. Why should I discuss in that case with anyone?
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #46 - 05/08/14 at 17:32:19
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/08/14 at 16:11:22:
Well, it's one thing to parrot back what a teacher says and another to REALLY understand it.  I remember my third-semester calculus class, many years ago now.  I sat in class every day and felt that I understood everything the teacher said, everything he did on the board, so I didn't really bother with homework...until I did terribly on the first exam! 

Clearly teachers have a large role, but you have to put in the time, effort, and thought yourself to really understand most complex things.  I like the idea of "coaches" as opposed to teachers, anyway, as the goal should not be to lecture directly, but to facilitate and guide the student to do whatever subject it is on his own.

I stated that it is perfectly possible to understand something by just listening or reading about a subject. The possibility of course depends on several factors: time, focus, intellectual capabilities, basics (e.g. knowing the rules of the game).

In fact Peter states that he didn't look to any books in advance but by looking to the megadatabase in advance of making the analysis he indirectly anyway did. People are copycats. Books copy what people play and people copy what books tell us.
« Last Edit: 05/08/14 at 19:33:18 by brabo »  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #45 - 05/08/14 at 16:11:22
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Well, it's one thing to parrot back what a teacher says and another to REALLY understand it.  I remember my third-semester calculus class, many years ago now.  I sat in class every day and felt that I understood everything the teacher said, everything he did on the board, so I didn't really bother with homework...until I did terribly on the first exam! 

Clearly teachers have a large role, but you have to put in the time, effort, and thought yourself to really understand most complex things.  I like the idea of "coaches" as opposed to teachers, anyway, as the goal should not be to lecture directly, but to facilitate and guide the student to do whatever subject it is on his own.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #44 - 05/08/14 at 12:57:34
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Jupp53 wrote on 05/08/14 at 12:18:36:
Is it so?

You only understand really when you have worked about something.

I don't agree with that. It is perfectly possible to understand something by just listening or reading about it. If not then schools, teachers, coaches, books,... would make no sense.
In fact for most of us, learning from others is in most cases the quickest method to understand something instead of trying to find out everything oneself.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #43 - 05/08/14 at 12:53:02
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Clearly, these used books have pencil notes from former GM owners.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #42 - 05/08/14 at 12:41:23
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Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 23:16:30:
Well, only time and reviews will tell!
Generally chess books receive more reviews on Amazon.com, but apparently mine won't be released in America until June.


It seems to be out on .de and .co.uk parts of amazon.

Though I'm not sure what to make of "12 new from Ł9.53 2 used from Ł13.95" ?!
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #41 - 05/08/14 at 12:18:36
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brabo wrote on 05/07/14 at 19:47:25:
However the serious drawback is that often for more than 90% of the analysis you are just reinventing the wheel. That is a massive amount of time which one better spends on different analyses. There is always new stuff to analyze in a complex opening so the job is never finished.


Is it so?

You only understand really when you have worked about something. So the time may be spoiled if looking under the view of novelties. But the time is surely well invested in knowledge.

So it's two-edged at least.
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #40 - 05/08/14 at 09:04:25
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Its definitely an interesting (and very brave!) way to do it Smiley Maybe relatively logical given the existence of the Greet starting book.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #39 - 05/08/14 at 00:06:14
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Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:52:23:
Right from the start, I wanted to create a new repertoire. So I set up Mega Database and an engine, and tried to approach the opening from the point of view of my target audience (1600-2200). Basically, that meant assuming nothing, and starting from scratch.


That's an interesting approach and one that an independent researcher might adopt in the absence of guidance from theory books.

Some of the most intense discussions on this site are about positions in the Kings Gambit and the Blackmar, that rarely if ever arise in practical play.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #38 - 05/07/14 at 23:16:30
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Well, only time and reviews will tell!
Generally chess books receive more reviews on Amazon.com, but apparently mine won't be released in America until June.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #37 - 05/07/14 at 22:51:34
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It seems to me, that at least in theory, a combined approach certainly has it's merits. For instance, just using databases and your own analysis to lay out a proper tree of what you think is best maximizes creativity and limits bias. Checking what you've got against all other published analysis and with computers afterwards eliminates mistakes and error-proofs it to a certain degree. I've done this with a bunch of lines.

The downside to this approach is that sometimes revisions can be large!  Grin
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #36 - 05/07/14 at 19:47:25
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 05/07/14 at 15:27:15:
Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:52:23:
[...] I dared not to read any books on the subject. [...]

Wow. The stone age approach.

Not knowing any earlier published theoretical analyses, certainly improves the creativity and reduces the prejudices which often makes that one misses possible ameliorations.

However the serious drawback is that often for more than 90% of the analysis you are just reinventing the wheel. That is a massive amount of time which one better spends on different analyses. There is always new stuff to analyze in a complex opening so the job is never finished.

Personally I very much doubt the benefits of the "stone age approach" outweigh the disadvantages.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #35 - 05/07/14 at 19:07:50
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Man, I'm not sure whether to dish out insults or heaps of respect to Peter for typing the thing out. I probably typed out a very small fraction of one percent out of my 400 pages and each time I found it agonizing and error prone, especially with move numbers. Kudos!

Grin
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #34 - 05/07/14 at 17:02:49
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I've been playing the (hyper)accelerated dragon for almost 5 years now but lately got a bit tired of it. This thread renewed my interest so I decided to buy the book Smiley
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #33 - 05/07/14 at 16:27:40
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IM Andrew Greet wrote on 05/07/14 at 15:58:34:
I'm just a bit baffled by it, but there's no reason for you to justify yourself to me if you don't want to.)


I don't mind explaining my different approach, Andrew; the readers might find it interesting!

First of all, manually inputting each move forced me to make sure that everything was relevant to the reader. This way, I couldn't be tempted to do a "copy-and-paste-job" like a certain American author is infamous for doing! Basically, every single move counts.

Secondly, because I studied English linguistics, I have a propensity for pedantry. Since I was proof-reading for missing commas, etc., anyway, it didn't take much longer to fill in the occasional "check" or "capture" sign.

That brings me on to the final reason. I have obviously copied variations from ChessBase before (when writing Chess Monthly articles), and I found that I tended to write "around" the variations. I mean that the text seemed a bit disconnected from the moves. That is why this time I endeavoured to write full sentences, since the linguist in me was actually trying to write a book (as opposed to an Informator).

  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #32 - 05/07/14 at 15:58:34
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Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 15:24:44:
Don't worry, I suffered from serious perfectionism, so I've lost count of how many times I proof-read the book! That explains why I took so much time on it; I actually began with the Introduction back in early 2013, and finished by February 2014.


Well, if you've eliminated all errors, then it's all well and good. I'm still struggling to understand why you chose to do it this way in the first place; it must have taken an eternity to enter all the moves manually, not to mention the hours and hours of subsequent error-checking. You must've done the initial work in ChessBase, so why not just copy the moves straight from there and save yourself a massive amount of work and tedium? How you work is entirely your business of course, but I just can't see any possible upside to the way you've done it.

So the book was finished in February this year, but the Introduction was written back in April 2013. This would appear to be another example of your original approach, as the Introduction is normally the last thing the author will write before submitting the manuscript. I'm surprised that the editor didn't change the date, as readers will more than likely assume, as I did, that April 2013 was the date when the book was completed.

(Edit: just read the message back and I don't mean to give you a hard time about entering the moves manually - I'm just a bit baffled by it, but there's no reason for you to justify yourself to me if you don't want to.)
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #31 - 05/07/14 at 15:36:32
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 05/07/14 at 15:27:15:
Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:52:23:
[...] I dared not to read any books on the subject. [...]

Wow. The stone age approach.


I predicted that my approach would be controversial! It was either stone-age-like or revolutionary. I didn't want to become mentally attached to other books, and take their analysis / opinions for granted. The reason is that understanding the opening in depth is obviously most important, so I wanted to embark on that exploration by myself.

This way, my resulting repertoire should hopefully work in harmony. As you might be able to tell, I can't quite phrase it eloquently at the moment, so let me rely on a cliché: "too many cooks spoil the broth". That was my novel idea, anyway.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #30 - 05/07/14 at 15:27:15
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Peter Lalic wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:52:23:
[...] I dared not to read any books on the subject. [...]

Wow. The stone age approach.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #29 - 05/07/14 at 15:24:44
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Don't worry, I suffered from serious perfectionism, so I've lost count of how many times I did a proof-read! That explains why I took so much time on it; I actually began the book and the introduction back in early 2013, and completed it by February 2014.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #28 - 05/07/14 at 15:12:34
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Interesting approach! I look forward to reading it for myself.

At Quality Chess we have found that entering moves manually, rather than using ChessBase, is an almost guaranteed recipe for errors. I sincerely hope this will not be the case in your book. Personally I don't see any reason not to copy and paste the notation from ChessBase to eliminate the risk of typos, but each to their own.

One other thing: sorry Peter if this causes some embarrassment, but I noticed the introduction is dated April 2013 - was the book really finished then? Not your fault of course if the publisher took that amount of time to get the book out, but a bit unfortunate all the same. At least the theory of the Accelerated Dragon tends not to be as volatile as, say, the Najdorf or Grunfeld.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #27 - 05/07/14 at 14:52:23
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IM Andrew Greet wrote on 05/07/14 at 14:24:17:
I read the extract and enjoyed the lively writing style. I'll be interested to see where Peter's recommendations diverge from my Starting Out book. Would Peter, or someone else who has both books, be willing to comment on this? (I should add that I'll be able to see for myself before too long, as we'll order a copy for the Quality Chess library.)


I appreciate that compliment from such an esteemed writer as yourself, Andrew! I can answer your question with a possibly controversial confession...

Right from the start, I wanted to create a new repertoire. So I set up Mega Database and an engine, and tried to approach the opening from the point of view of my target audience (1600-2200). Basically, that meant assuming nothing, and starting from scratch. Indeed, I was so nerdy in this regard that I manually typed every move into Word!

Anyway, in order to strive for this fresh perspective, I dared not to read any books on the subject. Another benefit was that the database obviously showed the actual tournament praxis of recent, so I could focus on the problems that the reader is being set with the black pieces nowadays.

Having said that, it was fun to read your book afterwards and notice all the similarities! For example, recurring themes like the ...Ra6 lift cropped up.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #26 - 05/07/14 at 14:24:17
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I read the extract and enjoyed the lively writing style. I'll be interested to see where Peter's recommendations diverge from my Starting Out book. Would Peter, or someone else who has both books, be willing to comment on this? (I should add that I'll be able to see for myself before too long, as we'll order a copy for the Quality Chess library.)
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #25 - 05/07/14 at 06:30:32
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PANFR wrote on 05/05/14 at 12:01:50:
My understanding is that the book is a little strange in its srtructure, but this is not necessarily a bad thing.
On the Bind he suggests the old Gurgenidze mainline (...a6 and ...Qa5 instead of ...a5) and it mainly uses games by Gusseinov. My feel, as a longtime AD player, is that these lines are viable, but a bit depressing to play OTB- especially the line you have to sac the exchange at d8.
And against the traditional Nc3/Bc4 attacking scheme, he advocates the Uogele variation instead of the solid ...Qa5 lines. The Uogele ends up to a nice mess of a position if white plays f2-f3, but in the case white castles short, my belief is that Black is struggling to equalize (good pawnstucture, but some nasty queenside weaknesses). What's his suggestion after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Nc3 (5.Be3 Nf6!- else white may achieve a Maroczy with Black unable to enter the Gurgenidze) Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Bc4 (my belief is that the right approach against 7.Nxc6 bc6 8.e5 is rather the pawn sac 8...Nd5 and not 8...Ng8, which is the universal recommendation- I won't disclose why I don't trust 8...Ng8 much, though) 7...0-0 8.Bb3 a5 9.0-0(!) a4 10.Nxa4 Nxe4. I think Black has trouble achieving equality here- what mr. Lalic is advocating?


The old plan with ...a6 and ...Qa5 is clearly best in the Gurgenidze, in my own opinion. Guisenov's games certainly form a solid impression of Black's chances. He isn't far from equality. However, I'm not sure he is entirely equal (theoretically or practically) in a different line than the exchange sacrifice line you're referring to. Close enough to have a viable position, though.

That's modern chess, though, the deeper you go in the analysis of a position the greater the likelihood of a draw seems to become.
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #24 - 05/05/14 at 17:31:58
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On a very side note, it's nice to see Fischer quoted correctly regarding White's plan in the Yugoslav; I recently watched a bit of a video by Eugene Perelshteyn ("Destroy White with the AD" or some such) in which he botched it.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #23 - 05/05/14 at 17:02:10
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TD wrote on 05/05/14 at 12:47:17:


The introduction says the most popular open sicilian is the Dragon...what does it mean by popular?  Cheesy
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #22 - 05/05/14 at 12:47:17
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #21 - 05/05/14 at 12:01:50
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My understanding is that the book is a little strange in its srtructure, but this is not necessarily a bad thing.
On the Bind he suggests the old Gurgenidze mainline (...a6 and ...Qa5 instead of ...a5) and it mainly uses games by Gusseinov. My feel, as a longtime AD player, is that these lines are viable, but a bit depressing to play OTB- especially the line you have to sac the exchange at d8.
And against the traditional Nc3/Bc4 attacking scheme, he advocates the Uogele variation instead of the solid ...Qa5 lines. The Uogele ends up to a nice mess of a position if white plays f2-f3, but in the case white castles short, my belief is that Black is struggling to equalize (good pawnstucture, but some nasty queenside weaknesses). What's his suggestion after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Nc3 (5.Be3 Nf6!- else white may achieve a Maroczy with Black unable to enter the Gurgenidze) Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Bc4 (my belief is that the right approach against 7.Nxc6 bc6 8.e5 is rather the pawn sac 8...Nd5 and not 8...Ng8, which is the universal recommendation- I won't disclose why I don't trust 8...Ng8 much, though) 7...0-0 8.Bb3 a5 9.0-0(!) a4 10.Nxa4 Nxe4. I think Black has trouble achieving equality here- what mr. Lalic is advocating?
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #20 - 05/04/14 at 19:03:22
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I don't understand why everymanchess don't put the extract on the web
Huh
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #19 - 05/04/14 at 16:05:16
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Scarblac wrote on 05/04/14 at 15:26:41:
"De Beste Zet" says there is also some coverage of anti-Sicilians in the book, but I don't see that on the Everyman site. Is there?

And another question -- what kind of plan against the Maroczy does the book cover?


Hopefully the contents should answer both of those questions:

1 The Main Line: Yugoslav Attack Attempts 11
2 The Main Line: 7 Bc4  43
3 The Main Line: Classical Variation  70
4 White Deviations  95
5 Maróczy Bind: Strategic Ideas  110
6 Maróczy Bind: Gurgenidze Variation  136

The chapter on White Deviations covers all of White's plausible alternatives on moves 5 and 7 of the Mainline.

The Gurgenidze variation is designed to trade as many minor pieces as possible, thereby neutralising our space disadvantage.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #18 - 05/04/14 at 15:26:41
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"De Beste Zet" says there is also some coverage of anti-Sicilians in the book, but I don't see that on the Everyman site. Is there?

And another question -- what kind of plan against the Maroczy does the book cover?
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #17 - 05/03/14 at 11:02:22
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TD wrote on 05/01/14 at 09:10:02:
Everyman says that it has uploaded an extract, but I can't seem to find it?!


I just asked my editor, who says that an extract should be uploaded this week to Amazon, where there are already a dozen sellers stocking the book.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #16 - 05/01/14 at 09:10:02
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Everyman says that it has uploaded an extract, but I can't seem to find it?!
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #15 - 04/20/14 at 22:01:02
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Peter Lalic wrote on 04/19/14 at 21:42:36:
CanadianClub wrote on 04/19/14 at 15:41:29:
Nice to see here another author  Smiley

In the main line: early Qa5 before castling or castling and then a5 to get d5 possible?

Good luck with the book !!


Thanks.
No matter what move order White chooses in the mainline, Black practically always castles on the seventh and thrusts a pawn forward on the eighth. Thus my recommendation against Fischer's plan features the flank attack ...a5-a4, followed by an inevitable ...d5. These positions are much more fun, and easy to play, than the tense ...Qa5 + ...d6 (sub-)standard Dragons.


Uhmmmm, interesting  Wink
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #14 - 04/20/14 at 15:05:10
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So no 5.Nc3 Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Bc4 O-O 8.Bb3 d6 9.f3 Bd7 10.Qd2 Nxd4 11.Bxd4 b5 either? That variation seems to be neglected last several years.
The consensus on this forum is more or less that the Gurgenidze is solid, but a bit passive. What is your view?
  

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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #13 - 04/19/14 at 21:42:36
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CanadianClub wrote on 04/19/14 at 15:41:29:
Nice to see here another author  Smiley

In the main line: early Qa5 before castling or castling and then a5 to get d5 possible?

Good luck with the book !!


Thanks.
No matter what move order White chooses in the mainline, Black practically always castles on the seventh and thrusts a pawn forward on the eighth. Thus my recommendation against Fischer's plan features the flank attack ...a5-a4, followed by an inevitable ...d5. These positions are much more fun, and easy to play, than the tense ...Qa5 + ...d6 (sub-)standard Dragons.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #12 - 04/19/14 at 21:06:46
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kylemeister wrote on 04/19/14 at 20:10:20:
On a maybe offhand note, I was surprised to notice a GM (I think) recently playing in a way I associate with Fischer-Panno 1958:  7. Bc4 0-0 8. f3.  I wonder if that was intentional/prepared.


Perhaps he's been checking Fischer-Panno with a computer engine. Engines appear to think it's about equal.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #11 - 04/19/14 at 20:10:20
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RdC wrote on 04/19/14 at 19:38:38:
The forcing line 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6. Be3 Nf6 7. Nxc6 bxc6 8. e5 has never been that popular in comparison to 7. Bc4 , but presumably gives White a playable game which isn't a normal Dragon position.

Has there been any discussion of the idea on this forum?


If there has been, I don't recall it.  I've been struck by how uncommon this old line seems to be these days.
I guess the choice between 8...Ng8 and 8...Nd5 is a matter of taste -- at least I've been accustomed to seeing them both regarded as leading to approximate equality with best play.

On a maybe offhand note, I was surprised to notice a GM (I think) recently playing in a way I associate with Fischer-Panno 1958:  7. Bc4 0-0 8. f3.  I wonder if that was intentional/prepared.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #10 - 04/19/14 at 19:38:38
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The forcing line 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 g6 5. Nc3 Bg7 6. Be3 Nf6 7. Nxc6 bxc6 8. e5 has never been that popular in comparison to 7. Bc4 , but presumably gives White a playable game which isn't a normal Dragon position.

Has there been any discussion of the idea on this forum?
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #9 - 04/19/14 at 15:41:29
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Peter Lalic wrote on 04/17/14 at 19:13:29:
Judging by Everyman's positive response, it sounds like you will be pleasantly surprised! By the way, the book is indeed arriving in the next week or two.

Here are the contents, for your information:

1 The Main Line: Yugoslav Attack Attempts 11
2 The Main Line: 7 Bc4  43
3 The Main Line: Classical Variation  70
4 White Deviations  95
5 Maróczy Bind: Strategic Ideas  110
6 Maróczy Bind: Gurgenidze Variation  136


Nice to see here another author  Smiley

In the main line: early Qa5 before castling or castling and then a5 to get d5 possible?

Good luck with the book !!
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #8 - 04/18/14 at 09:20:33
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176 pages to analyse 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5! ... (lol)
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #7 - 04/17/14 at 19:13:29
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Judging by Everyman's positive response, it sounds like you will be pleasantly surprised! By the way, the book is indeed arriving in the next week or two.

Here are the contents, for your information:

1 The Main Line: Yugoslav Attack Attempts 11
2 The Main Line: 7 Bc4  43
3 The Main Line: Classical Variation  70
4 White Deviations  95
5 Maróczy Bind: Strategic Ideas  110
6 Maróczy Bind: Gurgenidze Variation  136
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #6 - 04/17/14 at 10:03:45
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MartinC wrote on 04/16/14 at 09:31:08:
176 should be more than plenty Smiley It only took Greet 320 pages to cover pretty well everything about the accelerated dragon in the starting out book.
(How/whether it'll justify itself vs that Greet book I'm less sure.).


Agreed. Greet's book on the accelerated dragon is probably the best starting out book I know.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #5 - 04/16/14 at 23:36:22
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But the book is supposed to be coming out this month.

Incidentally it seems 320 was also the page count of "comprehensive" books on the AD by Nielsen/Hansen and Silman/Donaldson (both 1998).  But if that is true of Silman/Donaldson, it somehow bulked up by almost 100 pages from the 1993 edition ...
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #4 - 04/16/14 at 22:28:59
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Doesn't this happen every time a new book is announced?  Someone on the forum thinks that 176 pages is far too few to cover the opening, and by the time the book is printed the actual number of pages ends up being much longer.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #3 - 04/16/14 at 09:31:08
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176 should be more than plenty Smiley It only took Greet 320 pages to cover pretty well everything about the accelerated dragon in the starting out book.
(How/whether it'll justify itself vs that Greet book I'm less sure.).
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #2 - 04/16/14 at 08:21:56
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When I saw Lalic I was thinking in Bogdan Lalic I was surprised because I had no idea he was playing the accelerated dragon move order. But fantastic, anyway! But it's Peter Lalic, no Bogdan.

All my respects and good luck to Peter on the project, of course.
  
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Re: Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
Reply #1 - 04/15/14 at 20:59:58
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I take it the idea is that 176 pages is now considered shockingly few for a repertoire treatment of one variation (it isn't apparent to me that it also addresses "Anti-Sicilians") ...
  
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Lalic 2014. Play the Accelerated Dragon
04/15/14 at 19:39:02
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New everyman book peter lalic

176 p.  Shocked
  
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