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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #12 - 10/12/14 at 19:32:42
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So presumably he answers 4 Bg5 with 4...Bg7 5 Qd2 0-0 ?

  

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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #11 - 08/28/14 at 22:53:50
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Stigma wrote on 08/28/14 at 17:05:57:
I really want to jump into analysis of these 4.Be3 lines when time permits. 4...Bg7 and Vigus' wild opposite castling lines were supposed to be my backup plan when I got tired of defending 4...c6, i.e. now...

You're welcome anytime. Alas for Black in chapter 1, line B2 White wins after 18.f4 Qxa2 with 22.b3! Unfortunately I only found this after I the book was printed. Alas for White there is no refutation after 18...Nf8.
In line D you should analyze 9.Kb1 Re8 10.Bh6 Bh8 11.Bd3 Qa5 12.g4 with fantastic complications.
  

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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #10 - 08/28/14 at 22:51:23
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7...Nb6 was the subject of the YB article; the author (IM Luis Rodi) considered it better than 7...c5 (which was the subject of the letter).  His overall view was something like "White seems to get some initiative, though with precise play Black should gradually reach a balance."
  
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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #9 - 08/28/14 at 22:47:06
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Maybe you're right, Tony. I took a look at Moskalenko's "Perfect Pirc/Modern" tonight as well, and his lines with 6...dxe5 didn't look too boring (even the endgame lines with 7.fxe5 Qxd1+ 8.Kxd1 Nh5! intending ...f6 soon). I wouldn't be surprised if Marin goes for this as well, being a strong technical player.

From a glance at the database it seem White players still haven't figured out how to beat 4.Be3 a6!? (certainly not on ordinary mortal level), so I'm looking into that. But 4.Be3 Bg7 a la Vigus should still be fun to analyse.
  

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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #8 - 08/28/14 at 21:57:53
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Stigma wrote on 08/28/14 at 17:05:57:
I really want to jump into analysis of these 4.Be3 lines when time permits. 4...Bg7 and Vigus' wild opposite castling lines were supposed to be my backup plan when I got tired of defending 4...c6, i.e. now...

But for now, does Marin offer anything good in the Austrian against 5...0-0 6.e5!? I am worried by the sacrifical line posted recently on the QC blog: http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=2505

If it turns out Black has to play 6...dxe5 that's a bit of a turnoff for me, since I play the Pirc for complications!

I don't see something wrong with 6...Nfd7 7.Bc4 Nb6
at least no queen exchange here
  
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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #7 - 08/28/14 at 19:25:31
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By the way, Yearbook 108 had a regular article about 6. e5 Nfd7 7. Bc4, in addition to the letter mentioned by Shaw.
  
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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #6 - 08/28/14 at 17:05:57
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I really want to jump into analysis of these 4.Be3 lines when time permits. 4...Bg7 and Vigus' wild opposite castling lines were supposed to be my backup plan when I got tired of defending 4...c6, i.e. now...

But for now, does Marin offer anything good in the Austrian against 5...0-0 6.e5!? I am worried by the sacrifical line posted recently on the QC blog: http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/blog/?p=2505

If it turns out Black has to play 6...dxe5 that's a bit of a turnoff for me, since I play the Pirc for complications!
  

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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #5 - 08/25/14 at 05:41:43
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Sorry I did confuse my lines. After 4. Be3 Bg7 5 Qd2 o-o 6 Bh6 Marin gives e5 whereas after 6 o-o-o he gives c6. My mistake.

In the line 6.O-O-O c6 7.f3 b5 8.Kb1 (quite often recommended, but I think it inaccurate) Nbd7 9.h4 e5 10.Bh6 he gives 10...b4 11 Nce2 Qa5 which is not to say Bh6 isn't playable.

Thank you for your comments. I think entering these lines via the Modern is a good idea- it might be easier to play than the Pirc if White persists with Be3 lines.
  
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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #4 - 08/25/14 at 00:29:25
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Anon wrote on 08/24/14 at 22:39:45:
As far as 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 0-0 6.0-0-0 is concerned he does not like 6...c6 at all and gives e5 instead- a line Vigus described (correctly in my view) as "passive".

You're confusing two lines. Or does Marin? That would be shocking. Vigus only recommends 6...e5 after 6.f3 when e5 7.d5 c6! 8.O-O-O cxd5 9.Nxd5 Nxd5 10.Qxd5 Be6! is a highly dynamic gambit and thus refutes your remark (see the next quote). After 6.O-O-O e5?? White wins a pawn with 7.dxe5. Instead a direct transposition to the Philidor is possible with 6.O-O-O Nc6 7.f3 e5 8.Nge2 exd4 9.Nxd4, which is the same as 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 g6 6.f3 Bg7 7.Be3 O-O 8.Qd2 Nc6 9.O-O-O. That one is highly dynamic as well, though I'd argue that White is better. Moreover in the Pirc White can sidestep the transposition with 8.d5 (iso 8.Nge2), though I'm not sure it is as good.

Anon wrote on 08/24/14 at 22:39:45:
I don't really like the e5 lines for black perhaps because it reminds me of the Philidor which is not particularly dynamic-although to be fair I think Marin makes a fair case for this approach. It looks fairly solid and at least black is not coming under heavy attack straight away.

The most solid defense for Black to which this remark may apply is 6.O-O-O c6 (iso e5 or Nc6 as above) 7.f3 b5 8.Kb1 (quite often recommended, but I think it inaccurate) Nbd7 9.h4 e5 10.Bh6 Bxh6 (once again play is highly dynamic after exd4 11.Bxg7 dxc3) 11.Qxh6 Qe7 12.h5 Nb6 13.hxg6 fxg6 14.dxe5 dxe5 and Black might even be a bit better. Black's only vulnerable point, h7, can easily be protected. Black has a concrete plan; slowly expanding on the queenside. White has a serious problem to find a good square for Bf1.
As a thumbrule Black should consider this defense as soon as White plays an early Bh6. Unfortunately for Black there are several exceptions because of tactical tricks available to White. So a detailed preparation is necessary to play this stuff, but I don't think anyone contradicts that.
So I'd also like to know what Marin recommends after 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 O-O 6.O-O-O as avoiding ...e5 is one of the main points of this move order.

As for 4...c6 I can only guess. It might be because of 5.h3 and 6.f4, arguing that this is an improved version of the Austrian Attack (h3 being more useful than c6). The general idea is that after 4...c6 5.Qd2 b5 White's options are limited because Be3-h6 loses a tempo. After 6.f3 Nbd7 7.h4 Nb6 (h6!?) 8.g4 h5 9.g5 Nbd7 10.d5 Ne5 11.Bd4 things are unclear, so perhaps the simple transposition 6.f3 Bg7 (iso Nbd7) is best - the 6.O-O-O idea is especially designed to avoid this variation. An example is 7.h4 (among many other options) h5 8.Nh3 Bxh3 9.Rxh3 Nbd7.
Instead 6.Bd3 is similar to the 150-Attack (lines with f2-f3 are called the Argentinean Attack) when when Bg7 (Nbd7 is also possible) 7.Bh6 Bxh6 8.Qxh6 e5! 9.Nf3 Qe7 10.dxe5 dxe5 11.0-0-0 Bg4 is another example of ...e5 being a good move. Hence 7.Nf3, a transposition White might not like.
If this really bothers you and you also play the KID you might consider the Modern Defence as a tool to transpose to the Pirc. 1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.Be3 c6 5.Qd2 Nbd7 and after 6.f3 b5 7.h4 h5 8.Nh3 Nb6 9.Ng5 Black still doesn't have to play ...Ngf6. Better might be both 9...Rb8 and 9...Nc4 10.Bxc4 bxc4.
  

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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #3 - 08/24/14 at 22:39:45
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Sorry for the delay in replying. Marin agrees that the line 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.Bh6 Bxh6 7.Qxh6 Qa5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5 is bad for black saying that black is almost lost.

As far as 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 0-0 6.0-0-0 is concerned he does not like 6...c6 at all and gives e5 instead- a line Vigus described (correctly in my view) as "passive".

I don't really like the e5 lines for black perhaps because it reminds me of the Philidor which is not particularly dynamic-although to be fair I think Marin makes a fair case for this approach. It looks fairly solid and at least black is not coming under heavy attack straight away. If this is the best line- maybe one should play the Caro instead?

I am not sure whether there is any consensus among strong players as to how to play against 4. Be3. Have there been other recent developments against 4. Be3? If you don't like Marin's recommendations perhaps black has to look at other lines in 4 ..a6 or other ideas in the 4...c6 lines.

  
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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #2 - 08/22/14 at 13:09:47
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@Anon:

Thanks for sharing this information. One of my dreams was that Marin would write a book about the Pirc but a DVD is also good  Wink

But I am a little bit skeptical that he chooses 4.Bg7 after 4.Be3. I played this line too but couldn´t find any solution to the improvements that are given in the following games in "Chess Developments: The Pirc" by James Vigus. The games where Mr. Vigus mentioned this line is given in parenthesis:

(Caruana-Ivanchuk)
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 c6 6.Bh6 Bxh6 7.Qxh6 Qa5 8.Bd3 c5 9.d5!


(Nijboer-Oates)
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Be3 Bg7 5.Qd2 0-0 6.0-0-0 c6 7.f3 b5 8.Bh6 Qa5 9.h4 b4 10.Nb1 Ba6 11.h5 Bxf1 12.Rxf1 Nbd7 13.Bxg7 Kxg7 14.hxg6 fxg6 15.Qh6+Kg8 16.Nh3 Rf7 17.Ng5 Rg7 18.f4 Qxa2 19.e5 Ng4 20.Qh3 h5 21.f5 Nb6 22.b3 +-


Could you please give some hints where Marin is improving this line?
Or did you already check his proposal against the mentioned book of James Vigus?
  
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Re: Pirc New chessbase disc
Reply #1 - 08/22/14 at 10:47:36
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I will certainly pick these up and am especially interested in what Marin has to say on the Pirc.

Me a Pirc addict? No, surely not. Hmm, getting the munchies...must get a fix of new material on the Pirc...
  

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Pirc New chessbase disc
08/22/14 at 05:57:45
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I have just bought volume 2 of Marin's DVD on the Pirc. While his books are great I didn't really like his Leningrad DVD- which didn't really present a lot in the way of theory. This latest DVD on the Pirc is a considerable improvement although I have only watched about an hour.

In his analysis of 4 Be3 he explains why he does not like 4... c6 and goes on to present some interesting ideas in the 4...Bg7 lines. His ideas are based on his own experiences with the opening and his attempts through analysis to find improvements after suffering some painful losses.

He covers in the Austrian 4 f4 Bg7 5 Nf3 0-0 6 Bd3 Nbd7. I always assumed Nbd7 to be inferior and I had expected him to cover Na6 which he has written about. It will be interesting to see what he has to say about it.

For players interested in the Pirc, I think this DVD has much to offer. I like the fact there is a small database of games- many of which are annotated by "Bob" Marin.




Seems worthwhile if you are interested in the Pirc.
  
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