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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French (Read 6261 times)
an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #20 - 10/12/18 at 18:34:45
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I think this thread from 2004-2005 may be the one I was thinking of:
C00: The "Anti-French" 2.Qe2 http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1077642864/all

But if white plays 1.e4 e6 2.d3 c5 3.f4 and leaves out Qe2, I wasn't able to find any discussion in the French section. There was a brief mention of 3.g3 here:
C00: SOS article on King's Indian Attack http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1120757406
  
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #19 - 10/12/18 at 06:52:44
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 10/11/18 at 18:17:58:
The setup with ...e7-e6, ...c7-c5, and ...g7-g6 is quite correct whether white plays Ng1-f3 first, or f2-f4 first.

Stigma wrote on 10/12/18 at 04:29:37:
Exactly how would you continue against the Big Clamp setup with g3, f4 etc. eventually intending c3 and d4 ?
I have to admit my preferred setup as black was the straight-forward ...e7-e6, ...c7-c5 (or vice versa), ...d7-d5, ...Nb8-c6, ...Ng8-f6, ...Bf8-e7, ...O-O. And as white I tended to play Qe2 without f2-f4. So I am far from an expert on the ...g7-g6 line versus the Big Clamp. But it is obviously playable. Black is well placed to restrain both e4-e5 and f4-f5, so the only remaining issue is d3-d4. I seem to recall a rather good thread here on chesspub showing black getting good play with ...b7-b5-b4, in some high-level games. I will try to dig up the link tomorrow, work permitting.
  
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #18 - 10/12/18 at 04:29:37
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 10/11/18 at 18:17:58:
The setup with ...e7-e6, ...c7-c5, and ...g7-g6 is quite correct whether white plays Ng1-f3 first, or f2-f4 first.

Exactly how would you continue against the Big Clamp setup with g3, f4 etc. eventually intending c3 and d4 ?

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 10/11/18 at 18:17:58:
From the move order 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 c5, Botvinnik (1960) One hundred selected games recommended 3.b3(!), to stop 3...g6. If I recall correctly, Botvinnik's opponent played 3.f4 instead, and Botvinnik was not impressed. I have won two nice games against fairly strong opposition using 3.b3 to reach an ideal double-fianchetto setup. The one time I faced 2.Qe2 with black, I chose 2...g6!?, hoping for 3.f4 c5. The game went 3.d4 Bg7 4.c3 b6 5.g3!? Ba6 6.Qc2 Bxf1 7.Kxf1, and after further adventures ended in a draw by repetition.

I was half-aware that 3.b3 is an option there, as I've been thinking of trying 2.Qe2 from the White side. This is turning into a sort of b3 Sicilian, and as Black I would be temped to respond with something Kanish/Hedgehogish with 3...a6 or 3...b6, similarly to how I would meet 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.b3 when I played the Kan.
  

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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #17 - 10/12/18 at 04:11:39
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MNb wrote on 10/11/18 at 16:26:20:
The same setup works against the Big Clamp as well, eg 1.e4 e6 2.d3 c5 3.g3 Nc6 4.Bg2 g6 5.f4 Bg7 6.Nf3 Nge7 7.O-O O-O 8.c3 b6.
And I personally defused the setup with Be2 against David Flude: 1.e4 (the game actually began with 1.f4 c5) e6 2.d3 c5 3.f4 Nc6 4.Nf3 g6 5.Be2 Bg7 6.O-O Nge7 7.c3 O-O 8.Be3 d6 9.d4 f5. The game made White give up 1.f4, though he managed to draw.

CL/2007/FT1A ICCF

Of course this is an argument for leaving the pawn on d7 for a while.

So you recommend a double fianchetto against the Big Clamp. I will have to look at that when I have time, which won't be for a few days.

I hope playing both g6 and b6 is better than the Hedghehog. I say that because the Langrock book actually covers positions with the Big Clamp vs the Hedgehog and also the Closed Sicilian vs the Hedgehog, but with White losing two tempi, going 3.Nf3, then later Nh4 or Ne1 to free the f-pawn, and back to f3 again! But still he merely claims it's equal/unclear. The obvious question then is why Black should expect to be OK even if White saves two tempi...

Sample lines from Langrock:



It's important to be aware that White can also treat this as a reversed Dutch (as in your game with Flude), or a regular Closed Sicilian by throwing in Nc3 at any point after 1.e4 e6 2.d3 c5 3.g3. Even as late as 8.Nc3 in the line you give (instead of 8.c3), though maybe 8...d5 is a good answer at that point.
  

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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #16 - 10/11/18 at 18:17:58
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The setup with ...e7-e6, ...c7-c5, and ...g7-g6 is quite correct whether white plays Ng1-f3 first, or f2-f4 first. From the move order 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 c5, Botvinnik (1960) One hundred selected games recommended 3.b3(!), to stop 3...g6. If I recall correctly, Botvinnik's opponent played 3.f4 instead, and Botvinnik was not impressed. I have won two nice games against fairly strong opposition using 3.b3 to reach an ideal double-fianchetto setup. The one time I faced 2.Qe2 with black, I chose 2...g6!?, hoping for 3.f4 c5. The game went 3.d4 Bg7 4.c3 b6 5.g3!? Ba6 6.Qc2 Bxf1 7.Kxf1, and after further adventures ended in a draw by repetition.

Edited:
I am checking a copy of my personal database on the iPad. According to my notes this game is in 100 Selected Games:
Stoltz - Botvinnik, Groningen 1946, 1.e4 e6 2.Qe2 c5 3.g3 Nc6 4.Bg2 Nge7 5.Nc3 g6 6.d3 Bg7 7.Be3 d5 8.exd5 Nd4 9.Qd2 exd5 (0:1, 37)
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032125
« Last Edit: 10/11/18 at 20:15:40 by an ordinary chessplayer »  
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MNb
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #15 - 10/11/18 at 16:26:20
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Ah yes, when I began my comment I intended to address that as well, but I got carried away and forgot.

The same setup works against the Big Clamp as well, eg 1.e4 e6 2.d3 c5 3.g3 Nc6 4.Bg2 g6 5.f4 Bg7 6.Nf3 Nge7 7.O-O O-O 8.c3 b6.
And I personally defused the setup with Be2 against David Flude: 1.e4 (the game actually began with 1.f4 c5) e6 2.d3 c5 3.f4 Nc6 4.Nf3 g6 5.Be2 Bg7 6.O-O Nge7 7.c3 O-O 8.Be3 d6 9.d4 f5. The game made White give up 1.f4, though he managed to draw.

CL/2007/FT1A ICCF

Of course this is an argument for leaving the pawn on d7 for a while.
  

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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #14 - 10/11/18 at 15:23:51
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MNb wrote on 10/11/18 at 08:21:08:
Stigma wrote on 10/11/18 at 03:31:12:
it would be nice to have 2.d3 c5 as an option.
I have a lot of respect for Marin and some hope he thought of addressing this..

No doubt you have a lot of respect for possibly the most ambitious WCh in history as well. Why not take a look at his approach then?

Ljubojevic,L (2645) - Kasparov,G (2690) [A08]
Niksic (5), 1983

Nice game, but it has nothing to do with the topic of the thread. The question was what to do when White does not play an early Nf3.

The setup Kasparov played seems promising and is on my radar. But from the French move order I think it's easier to start with 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 if Black intends to play with ...d7-d5 anyway. When Black plays 2.d3 c5 he usually wants something without an early ...d5, like a Botvinnik system, Hedgehog setup or Scheveningen setup.
  

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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #13 - 10/11/18 at 08:21:08
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Stigma wrote on 10/11/18 at 03:31:12:
it would be nice to have 2.d3 c5 as an option.
I have a lot of respect for Marin and some hope he thought of addressing this..

No doubt you have a lot of respect for possibly the most ambitious WCh in history as well. Why not take a look at his approach then?

Ljubojevic,L (2645) - Kasparov,G (2690) [A08]
Niksic (5), 1983



After Black's ninth he/she scores a highly satisfying 57%.
0-1

Black does equally well after 8.c3 b6 9.Qe2.
So perhaps White should play the relatively unexplored 8.c3 b6 9.exd5 exd5 10.Re1 O-O.

Personally I would postpone ...d5 a bit more than Kasparov did as I might want to play ...d6 evt. So I get something like 1.e4 e6 2.d3 c5 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3 g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 6.O-O Nge7 7.Re1 b6 8.c3 O-O and White doesn't need to play Nbd2. This suggests Kasparov's 4...d5 is most accurate; I'll have to take a look at 5.Qe2 (iso Ljubo's 5.Nbd2) and especially Nge7 6.h4!? before drawing a conclusion. In a few games Black has chosen a slow Sämisch with f6 and 7...e5.
  

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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #12 - 10/11/18 at 03:31:12
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This old issue still bugs me a bit. I have gone as far as switching to the main move 2.d3 d5 just in case White is planning some 2.d3 c5 3.g3 trickery! But it would be nice to have 2.d3 c5 as an option.

Has anyone seen Marin's recent French databases for Modern Chess? I haven't bought them yet, but I have a lot of respect for Marin and some hope he thought of addressing this.

I've had a good look at French Defense: The Solid Rubinstein Variation by Hannes Langrock, and it has the same problem as Williams' repertoire book: Recommends 2.d3 c5 (in Langrock's case following up with 3.Nf3 b6 and an interesting and fresh Hedgehog setup), but pretends that 3.Nf3 is the only possible answer! No mention of White alternatives on move 3, like 3.g3 or 3.f4, as far as I can see.

What's perplexing is after Chigorin's 2.Qe2 c5 Langrock is perfectly happy to consider a range of White tries: 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.g3, 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.c3, 3.f4 and 3.g3. So after 2.Qe2 c5 White has lots of options, while after 2.d3 c5, 3.Nf3 is somehow forced?? It just doesn't add up.  Angry

Otherwise Langrock's book looks excellent btw., so I'm not condemning the entire effort based on this small oversight. It even covers the French Advance line OldGrizzly asked about in great detail. But I think I will contact some of these authors and ask them to fill this 2.d3 c5 3.g3/3.others gap.

I also checked Rogozenko's old Anti-Sicilians book. He very sensibly meets the Big Clamp with a Botvinnik system with 1.e4 c5 2.d3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.f4 d6 6.Nf3 e5 (wih 6...Nf6 as a backup line), which means his coverage is not useful for a French player.
  

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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #11 - 06/26/15 at 07:50:43
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Sorry, The Big Clamp was not my target (see reply #7).
  
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #10 - 06/26/15 at 02:56:01
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You can find links to everything you want to know about The Big Clamp here:
http://kenilworthian.blogspot.com/2011/02/big-clamp.html

I think the most clamp-like line against the French is 1.e4 e6 2.f4!? d5 3.e5, but Day prefers the KIA-type set ups or Chigorin's 2.Qe2.  In my Big Clamp game collection -- which adds some games to those in Day's book -- I include games with all of these ideas.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chesscollection?cid=1020360
  
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #9 - 06/23/15 at 08:42:03
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I was hoping someone could show me what he means with the "remedy"! Roll Eyes
  
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #8 - 05/12/15 at 20:52:10
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OldGrizzly wrote on 05/12/15 at 09:11:10:
There is another interesting Anti-Sicilian which becomes a French: 1.e4 c5 2.Sf3 a6 3.c3 e6 4.d4 d5 5.e5 Ld7.
... Rapport claiming to have an easy remedy for White against this sideline.


I would like to know it..because GM C.Bauer played this line as Black vs me in rapid game some years ago. I recorded two good lines for White :

6.Nbd2!? Sveshnikov-Drazic,Ljujana 1997 as given by Sveshnikov, but ... no more moves...(Sveshnikov liked to advice the Advance, but not giving so much analysis)

6.Bd3 and then
A) 6...Bb5?! 7.Bxb5 axb5 8.dxc5 (pleaser note this move giving a bad pawn structure) Bxc5 9.b4 Bb6 10.Na3 (Eingorn)
B) 6...cxd4 7.cxd4 Bb5 8.Bxb5 (8.Bc2!? Eingorn) axb5 9.oo +=
C) 6...Nc6 7.oo (7.Be3 Dom)  cxd4 8.cxd4 Qb6 9.Bc2 += (or a Milner Barry or Korchnoi gambit with Nc3 or Nbd2)
D) 6...Qb6 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.oo Nc6 (8....Bb5 9.b4 Be7 10.Be3 +/-) 9.c4 Nge7 10.Nc3 dxc4 11.Bxc4 +=
  

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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #7 - 05/12/15 at 09:11:10
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There is another interesting Anti-Sicilian which becomes a French: 1.e4 c5 2.Sf3 a6 3.c3 e6 4.d4 d5 5.e5 Ld7.
In the May update of Anti-Sicilians section David Smerdon discussed the game Anton Guijarro vs. Rapport claiming to have an easy remedy for White against this sideline.
Unfortunately, I'm a subscriber of only 6 sections - especially not Anti-Sicilians. Therefore I can't have a look at his notes. Perhaps someone can help?! Wink
  
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Re: The "Big clamp" Anti-Sicilian against the French
Reply #6 - 05/11/15 at 22:45:11
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good system for White
  
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