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Normal Topic B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni (Read 1499 times)
picasso911
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Re: B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni
Reply #6 - yesterday at 16:36:36
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Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/20/17 at 23:05:14:
Hello and welcome to the forum!


Thank you!  Smiley

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/20/17 at 23:05:14:
Also had a few interesting games in this 6...Na6 continuation (and a healthy plus score Cool).
That being said I am also confident enough to play Tiger's, and Kornev's 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Nc6 and managed to beat a E2000+ once after 7.0-0 e5 8.fxe5 dxe5 9.d5 Ne7 10.Bg5 c6 11.dxc6 Nxc6 12.Nxe5?? Qd4+ Grin (12...Nxe5? 13.Nd5 was my opponent's idea).


So far, I didn't have the chance to play the 9...Ne7-line in a tournament game (previously my choice was 9...Nd4 based on Nunns "Ultimate Pirc"), but I remember quite a few online games in which my opponent fell for the same 11...Qd4+ trap.  Grin
Seems to be little known, at least at my level.

I guess the critical line is 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Nc6 7.0-0 e5 8.fxe5 dxe5 9.d5 Ne7 10.Nxe5 c6 11.Bg5 cxd5 12.Bxf6 Qb6+ 13.Kh1 Bxf6 14.Nxd5 Nxd5 15.Nc4! Qc5! 16.exd5 Bg7 17.Qf3 b6 as recommended in Tiger's 2nd book. White is (at the moment) a pawn up, but Black's bishops should hold the balance (I think Tiger's Maingame for this line is a nice victory by Gewain Jones).

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/20/17 at 23:05:14:
In general the fact that most players seem to go:
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Bg4 these days is perhaps indicative of how they want to minimise risk in the position, which is of course quite present after the more positionally optimistic 8...Rb8. I don't see the great appeal in black's position after 8...Bg4 though (9.Bc4 += Wink); so for me 8...Rb8 has always been the more interesting move.


That's kind of the trade-off: In the 8...Rb8-line the same idea with Bc4 doesn't make too much sense as 9.Bc4 runs into 9...b5! (as you pointed out) with the Knight on a6 still defended.
In contrast, after 8...Bg4 9.Bc4 Nc7 say 10.h3 Bxf3 11.Qxf3 neither 11...e6 12.dxe6 fxe6 13.Rd1 Qe7 14.e5 nor 11...a6 12.a4 Rb8 13.a5 b5 14.axb6 Rxb6 15.Qd3 look completely equal (but playable).
In general, it's always nice to have an alternative suited for your mood or opponent of course.

Confused_by_Theory wrote on 06/20/17 at 23:05:14:
Edit: I am secretly hoping for Marin to recommend 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 Smiley


I'm anxious for Marin's new Pirc-book as well!  Cheesy
In my database he played both 8...Rb8 and 8...Bg4 exactly 5 times each, the latter more recently, but who knows!  Wink
  
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Re: B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni
Reply #5 - 06/20/17 at 23:05:14
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Hello and welcome to the forum!

picasso911 wrote on 06/20/17 at 11:56:56:
Against the Austrian with 6.Bd3 & 7.0-0 I almost exclusively played 7...Nc6, but sometimes the tension in the center fizzled out a bit too soon for my taste and it seemed difficult to avoid the outcome with Black.
7...Na6 is of course a very worthy alternative (and I think today even Mainline), as it generates a more strategic and dynamic middlegame fight. So I recently included it in my repertoire and got complex games, experience and feeling for the arising positions still need to be established though.

Also had a few interesting games in this 6...Na6 continuation (and a healthy plus score Cool).
That being said I am also confident enough to play Tiger's, and Kornev's 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Nc6 and managed to beat a E2000+ once after 7.0-0 e5 8.fxe5 dxe5 9.d5 Ne7 10.Bg5 c6 11.dxc6 Nxc6 12.Nxe5?? Qd4+ Grin (12...Nxe5? 13.Nd5 was my opponent's idea).

picasso911 wrote on 06/20/17 at 11:56:56:
When I looked up your book references and refrehed some of my notes, it seemed that 9.Qe2 and 9.f5 post the most (practical) problems for Black - 9.Kh1 (very popular) and 9.a3 (maybe rather played as an SOS on move 6!) I wouldnt consider to be too dangerous.
In general, when Black is able to play both ..Rb8 and ..Bg4 (9.f5 is stopping this of course), he should be quite alright in my opinion, although 9.Qe2 as it prepares e5 and stops ..b5 has to be taken seriously.

In general the fact that most players seem to go:
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Bg4 these days is perhaps indicative of how they want to minimise risk in the position, which is of course quite present after the more positionally optimistic 8...Rb8. I don't see the great appeal in black's position after 8...Bg4 though (9.Bc4 += Wink); so for me 8...Rb8 has always been the more interesting move.

There we do find risk and a lot of stuff needs to be known. I would even go so far as to say that after more than one white ninth move the position is so critical that there may only be one good reply for black Shocked.

Have a nice day.

Edit: I am secretly hoping for Marin to recommend 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 Smiley
  
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Re: B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni
Reply #4 - 06/20/17 at 11:56:56
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Thanks for the shared analysis! Smiley

Against the Austrian with 6.Bd3 & 7.0-0 I almost exclusively played 7...Nc6, but sometimes the tension in the center fizzled out a bit too soon for my taste and it seemed difficult to avoid the outcome with Black.
7...Na6 is of course a very worthy alternative (and I think today even Mainline), as it generates a more strategic and dynamic middlegame fight. So I recently included it in my repertoire and got complex games, experience and feeling for the arising positions still need to be established though.  Wink

When I looked up your book references and refrehed some of my notes, it seemed that 9.Qe2 and 9.f5 post the most (practical) problems for Black - 9.Kh1 (very popular) and 9.a3 (maybe rather played as an SOS on move 6!) I wouldnt consider to be too dangerous.
In general, when Black is able to play both ..Rb8 and ..Bg4 (9.f5 is stopping this of course), he should be quite alright in my opinion, although 9.Qe2 as it prepares e5 and stops ..b5 has to be taken seriously.

Will be interesting to see, how further authors will evaluate these lines in the future!  Smiley
  
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Re: B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni
Reply #3 - 06/08/15 at 04:08:12
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Hello again.

Having spent time, on and off, during the last week finishing my analyses of all white ninth moves in the position after:
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8)

I’ve come to decide that perhaps one more ninth move besides 9.Qe2, 9.f5 should be raised in this thread for consistency’s sake. It being probably equally critical to the two lines already raised.

The line is:
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.a3)

As per my other posts I will include a PGN analysis:

Given the number of replies by other members in this thread remains consistent this will be my last post in the thread.

Have a nice day.
  
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Re: B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni
Reply #2 - 05/28/15 at 16:54:53
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Hello.

I have now looked a bit at this 9.f5 continuation also.
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.f5)

Interesting stuff. I mainly checked the combative response 9...gxf5!?

Here is a PGN with some analysis:
  
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Re: B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni
Reply #1 - 05/24/15 at 21:08:15
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Hello.

I took to analyzing this second line:
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.Qe2 Bg4)
For myself and thought I’d post a small PGN summary of my analysis.



As for the 9.f5 line maybe I will do something similar when I have analyzed that line.

Edit: Some of my evaluations (~ and += and such) disappeared for some reason so I put evaluations in text form instead.
  
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B09: Austrian Pirc Benoni
05/17/15 at 18:49:41
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Hello.
I was thinking of including this line in my black repertoire as an alternative to 6…Nc6.

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8

I’ve read up a bit using Vigus’s books “the Pirc in Black and White” and “Chess Developments the Pirc”. I also have Moskalenkos The Perfect Pirc-Modern and Khalifman on Anand 4. There is a lot to absorb because white has quite many ninth moves and play in almost all continuations is complex. I thought 9.f5 looked decidedly most dangerous and difficult for black though which brings me to my first question.

How is the theoretical status of this line today, some years after it was last covered in literature?
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.f5)


Another thing I wondered was if in the line:
(1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.f4 Bg7 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Bd3 Na6 7.0-0 c5 8.d5 Rb8 9.Qe2)

Anyone has analyzed the continuation 9…Bg4?

Other continuations after 9.Qe2 look unappealing to me; this is why I ask.
  
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