Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming (Read 18113 times)
GabrielGale
Senior Member
****
Offline


Who was Thursday?

Posts: 471
Location: Sydney
Joined: 02/28/08
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #37 - 06/27/16 at 10:31:05
Post Tools
@TN, thanks for the reply.
same as Marcellus (thanks), I noticed you mentioned your articles before. Where can we find it and under which name? Sorry, I am not good at guessing ChessPubbers names fro their handles.

Re 2) Interesting that you think we swung back now to 1 e4. I think you mentioned on another thread the trendy line in d3 Italian is a4? What is the idea?
Re 3), sheesh! I forgot about the Catalan. A bit silly considering I am going through Wojo's Weapons at the moment! Embarrassed
Re 4) Great to see you agree. I downloaded al the games but has yet to have chance to go through them.
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Marcellus
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 89
Location: FL
Joined: 01/31/15
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #36 - 06/26/16 at 15:29:36
Post Tools
TN wrote on 06/26/16 at 10:17:54:
I'm slightly surprised this didn't get a response, so I thought I'd answer.

1) Yes, they are different time controls and a different type of play is required for the optimal results. I already wrote about this in one of my articles.

2) There is a slight trend, the Flank Openings will always exist for those seeking an interesting strategic battle. Lately the main trend is 1.e4 as recently some very interesting ideas were found in the Italian Game and even against the Berlin, though the Najdorf remains the main headache today. Next month the conclusion might be different, though.

3) All the listed lines are big trends, and I don't see why that won't continue. The equivalent in 1.d4 would probably be the Catalan approach against everything, or the London System.

4) For sure, the ideas in the speed games of the best players tend to be somewhat clearer and simpler than in their classical games. For this reason I made substantial use of these games in my lessons in the last couple of weeks.


Where can one find your various articles, such as the one referenced above?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #35 - 06/26/16 at 10:17:54
Post Tools
GabrielGale wrote on 06/23/16 at 00:49:49:
Dis not wish to begin yet another new thread, so I thought I will "hijack" this slightly older thread but on the same general topic: blitz and rapid repertoire.
Macedonian GM Alex Colivic has a review of the very recent Grand Chess Tour double consecutive weekend header of rapid and blitz games with basically the top 20 players including Magnus. http://www.alexcolovic.com/2016/06/the-openings-at-grand-chess-tour-2016.html
This is what GM Colovic has to say:
Quote:
Let's start with the Paris rapid (won by Nakamura with 7/9, half a point ahead of Carlsen) where out of 45 games there was 1 (!!!) Sicilian (with the ever-popular 3 Bb5+) and 17 games that opened with 1 e4 e5 with an incredible score for black - 3 losses, 8 (!!) wins and 6 draws. Out of these 17 games there was 1 Giuoco Piano (but take a look how the trend changed first at the blitz and then in Leuven) and 7 games with the usual 4 d3, avoiding the Berlin. Here the statistics was shocking - black won 4, lost 1 and drew 2 games!

Throughout all the events the move 1 Nf3 was very prominent. If with black the players wanted to kill it off with the Berlin, with white when they wanted to avoid the Berlin they usually played 1 Nf3 and different variations of the Reti and the English Opening occurred. As expected, black didn't have any problems there.

In the Paris blitz (won jointly by Carlsen and Nakamura with 11.5/18) the Berlin battlefield widened. There were already 4 Giuoco Pianos, 3 with the recently very popular plan with a2-a4. We also had one brave soul, in the guise of the valiant Vachier, who boldly went where no one else dared to go - into the endgame. It all ended as expected, though, with a draw (that he saved). The vast majority of games were again with 4 d3, but this time the statistics favoured white - 6 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw.

[In] Leuven ... From the total number of 45 games there were 15 that started with 1 e4 e5, 2 less than in the Paris rapid. The number of Sicilians increased by 300% - there were 3 of them, 2 Najdorfs and one 3 Bb5+. All of them were drawn. There were also 5 Giuoco Pianos, with excellent results for white, 3 wins and 2 draws. Still the players couldn't end the love affair with the 4 d3 in the Spanish - 8 games this time, but with a better statistics for white - 3 wins (2 of those against Kramnik), 2 losses and 3 draws.

There were whole 9 Sicilians in the blitz - perhaps they remembered that it was possible to move another pawn on move 1? The results were encouraging for black, 5 wins, 3 losses and 1 draw. The Najdorf also scored well, 3 wins and 2 losses. The Giuoco Piano finally wrestled the domination from the Spanish with 4 d3 - there were 12 games with it, but amazingly white didn't win a single game while losing 2! The Spanish with 4 d3 was played only 6 times, the players probably getting enough of it.

Worth noting is that in the Leuven blitz one third of the games (34 out of 90) were some sort of an English Opening, Reti or anything in between, white starting with 1 Nf3 or 1 c4. Whether this was result of the fatigue with the Spanish and various solid options black has after 1 d4 or a desire to obtain something more fresh and keep the main weapons for the classical controls remains to be seen


Of course, the last question is apposite. So, to generate discussion, my questions:
1) Do you think, for the top 20, the openings for rapid and blitz are different from their classical time controls openings? [Earlier in thread, some posters acknowledge they just play the same repertoire in blitz.]
2) Assuming [make the assumption for discussion sake] the openings are the same, is there trend to the flank openings, 1 c4, 1 Nf3. In the last few years, I think 1 d4 dominated.
[remember what Carlsen said in a FB interview: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1463970404].
3) So, are we going to see more d3 Spanish? c3 d3 Italian? Bb5 Sicilian? (Interestingly, GM Gawain Jones, in his rep book recommends a KIA to complete the Bb5 rep.)
Are there any other equivalents of these slower (closed?), positional openings?
How about an equivalent in 1 d4? The TMB? but that is a Black's response.
4) This is my own conjecture. I think for us mere mortals, esp those in the 1800-2000 region, it can be instructive to look at the blitz and rapid games of the top players. Yes, there are blunders (esp evident in both legs of the Tour and Kramnik uncharacteristically come to mind) but my theory is that the top players blunder in fast time controls what we mere mortals blunder in slower time controls. This is based on conjecture the top players see things faster than us and react and play faster whilst us mortals are slow!

BTW, I think GM Colvic's blog is worth reading and following.
BTW2, IM Greg Shade in his blog has written critically of the time controls and the length of play. http://www.gregshahade.com


I'm slightly surprised this didn't get a response, so I thought I'd answer.

1) Yes, they are different time controls and a different type of play is required for the optimal results. I already wrote about this in one of my articles.

2) There is a slight trend, the Flank Openings will always exist for those seeking an interesting strategic battle. Lately the main trend is 1.e4 as recently some very interesting ideas were found in the Italian Game and even against the Berlin, though the Najdorf remains the main headache today. Next month the conclusion might be different, though.

3) All the listed lines are big trends, and I don't see why that won't continue. The equivalent in 1.d4 would probably be the Catalan approach against everything, or the London System.

4) For sure, the ideas in the speed games of the best players tend to be somewhat clearer and simpler than in their classical games. For this reason I made substantial use of these games in my lessons in the last couple of weeks.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
GabrielGale
Senior Member
****
Offline


Who was Thursday?

Posts: 471
Location: Sydney
Joined: 02/28/08
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #34 - 06/23/16 at 00:49:49
Post Tools
Dis not wish to begin yet another new thread, so I thought I will "hijack" this slightly older thread but on the same general topic: blitz and rapid repertoire.
Macedonian GM Alex Colivic has a review of the very recent Grand Chess Tour double consecutive weekend header of rapid and blitz games with basically the top 20 players including Magnus. http://www.alexcolovic.com/2016/06/the-openings-at-grand-chess-tour-2016.html
This is what GM Colovic has to say:
Quote:
Let's start with the Paris rapid (won by Nakamura with 7/9, half a point ahead of Carlsen) where out of 45 games there was 1 (!!!) Sicilian (with the ever-popular 3 Bb5+) and 17 games that opened with 1 e4 e5 with an incredible score for black - 3 losses, 8 (!!) wins and 6 draws. Out of these 17 games there was 1 Giuoco Piano (but take a look how the trend changed first at the blitz and then in Leuven) and 7 games with the usual 4 d3, avoiding the Berlin. Here the statistics was shocking - black won 4, lost 1 and drew 2 games!

Throughout all the events the move 1 Nf3 was very prominent. If with black the players wanted to kill it off with the Berlin, with white when they wanted to avoid the Berlin they usually played 1 Nf3 and different variations of the Reti and the English Opening occurred. As expected, black didn't have any problems there.

In the Paris blitz (won jointly by Carlsen and Nakamura with 11.5/18) the Berlin battlefield widened. There were already 4 Giuoco Pianos, 3 with the recently very popular plan with a2-a4. We also had one brave soul, in the guise of the valiant Vachier, who boldly went where no one else dared to go - into the endgame. It all ended as expected, though, with a draw (that he saved). The vast majority of games were again with 4 d3, but this time the statistics favoured white - 6 wins, 2 losses and 1 draw.

[In] Leuven ... From the total number of 45 games there were 15 that started with 1 e4 e5, 2 less than in the Paris rapid. The number of Sicilians increased by 300% - there were 3 of them, 2 Najdorfs and one 3 Bb5+. All of them were drawn. There were also 5 Giuoco Pianos, with excellent results for white, 3 wins and 2 draws. Still the players couldn't end the love affair with the 4 d3 in the Spanish - 8 games this time, but with a better statistics for white - 3 wins (2 of those against Kramnik), 2 losses and 3 draws.

There were whole 9 Sicilians in the blitz - perhaps they remembered that it was possible to move another pawn on move 1? The results were encouraging for black, 5 wins, 3 losses and 1 draw. The Najdorf also scored well, 3 wins and 2 losses. The Giuoco Piano finally wrestled the domination from the Spanish with 4 d3 - there were 12 games with it, but amazingly white didn't win a single game while losing 2! The Spanish with 4 d3 was played only 6 times, the players probably getting enough of it.

Worth noting is that in the Leuven blitz one third of the games (34 out of 90) were some sort of an English Opening, Reti or anything in between, white starting with 1 Nf3 or 1 c4. Whether this was result of the fatigue with the Spanish and various solid options black has after 1 d4 or a desire to obtain something more fresh and keep the main weapons for the classical controls remains to be seen


Of course, the last question is apposite. So, to generate discussion, my questions:
1) Do you think, for the top 20, the openings for rapid and blitz are different from their classical time controls openings? [Earlier in thread, some posters acknowledge they just play the same repertoire in blitz.]
2) Assuming [make the assumption for discussion sake] the openings are the same, is there trend to the flank openings, 1 c4, 1 Nf3. In the last few years, I think 1 d4 dominated.
[remember what Carlsen said in a FB interview: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1463970404].
3) So, are we going to see more d3 Spanish? c3 d3 Italian? Bb5 Sicilian? (Interestingly, GM Gawain Jones, in his rep book recommends a KIA to complete the Bb5 rep.)
Are there any other equivalents of these slower (closed?), positional openings?
How about an equivalent in 1 d4? The TMB? but that is a Black's response.
4) This is my own conjecture. I think for us mere mortals, esp those in the 1800-2000 region, it can be instructive to look at the blitz and rapid games of the top players. Yes, there are blunders (esp evident in both legs of the Tour and Kramnik uncharacteristically come to mind) but my theory is that the top players blunder in fast time controls what we mere mortals blunder in slower time controls. This is based on conjecture the top players see things faster than us and react and play faster whilst us mortals are slow!

BTW, I think GM Colvic's blog is worth reading and following.
BTW2, IM Greg Shade in his blog has written critically of the time controls and the length of play. http://www.gregshahade.com
  

http://www.toutautre.blogspot.com/
A Year With Nessie ...... aka GM John Shaw's The King's Gambit (http://thekinggambit.blogspot.com.au/)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4648
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #33 - 12/19/15 at 07:00:57
Post Tools
ChevyBanginStyle wrote on 12/17/15 at 06:21:12:
Turn to 3.e3 Be6 and I see that after 4.Nf3 c6, five moves are mentioned and none of them are 5.Nc3. This is really strange since it is the most popular move and was featured in Kornev's recent repertoire book.


On a historical note, I see that the position after 5. Nc3 also came up in the venerable ECO (4th ed.) from 11 years ago.  (Speaking of old stuff, this ...Be6 reminded me of Andrew Soltis, who played 1. d4 d5 2. c4 dc 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e3 Be6 decades ago.)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ChevyBanginStyle
Full Member
***
Offline


2 \infty & *CRUNCH*

Posts: 238
Joined: 01/03/10
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #32 - 12/19/15 at 04:35:46
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 12/18/15 at 22:55:21:
its a blitz repertoire isnt it?

I wouldn't get too worked up and serious about it or start comparing it to proper theoretical works.


are the standards so low, that it is unreasonable to expect the most popular moves in the main lines to be cursorily mentioned at a minimum?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 3153
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #31 - 12/19/15 at 01:05:53
Post Tools
TN wrote on 12/19/15 at 00:51:47:
Interestingly Dlugy suggested the London for White and Leningrad Dutch for Black as good blitz openings in some Chess.com videos. Actually some years ago, a number of elite players made an important discovery about the best openings for blitz, I wrote about this in a periodical earlier this year.

Fianchetto your bishops! Especially the king's bishop, so your king is safer when you castle.

My theory for a while now has been that openings that don't try to grab a lot of space are typically good for blitz. If the opponent then takes the center, it's harder for him to control all potential breaks at short time controls. Is this just nonsense, or does it say more about me than it does about blitz?!

There is obvious overlap with the fianchetto suggestion though, for example the English and Reti fit both descriptions for White (I especially like the Reti since I often get to play lots of moves a tempo, i.e. in reversed London/Torre lines). And the Benko Gambit, King's Indian, Dragon, Accelerated Dragon, various ...g6 lines in the Alekhine etc. fit for Black.

I also love the French as a blitz defence though, and it's definitely more about conceding space than about fianchettoing! The suggestion of the Leningrad also puzzles me: Doesn't the weakening of squares around the king with ...f5 and ...d6 rather negate the protective effect of the bishop on g7? I say this as a longtime Leningrad player (but usually not in blitz!).
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3420
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #30 - 12/19/15 at 00:51:47
Post Tools
Interestingly Dlugy suggested the London for White and Leningrad Dutch for Black as good blitz openings in some Chess.com videos. Actually some years ago, a number of elite players made an important discovery about the best openings for blitz, I wrote about this in a periodical earlier this year.

Fianchetto your bishops! Especially the king's bishop, so your king is safer when you castle.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2891
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #29 - 12/18/15 at 22:55:21
Post Tools
its a blitz repertoire isnt it?

I wouldn't get too worked up and serious about it or start comparing it to proper theoretical works.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lg
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 558
Location: Lisbon
Joined: 04/18/05
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #28 - 12/18/15 at 18:12:42
Post Tools
This is interesting and in fact makes me even more eager to receive my copy.
As far as I remember the 8...h6 was the main line due to some tactics when the knight on d5 moves to b4 after pawn moves to c4; the tactics worked well for White after 8...e6, and that is why Black suggested 8...h6 causing a slight difference guaranteeing that Black is ok;
however, later on White was able to fix this; this is well explained in Greet's book;
that is why the main line become with 8...e6 and the knight retreating to f6.
well, apparently something else was discovered for Black after 8...h6; still not clear why after 8...e6 White gets a CLEAR advantage
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AlbertCamus
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/16/15
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #27 - 12/18/15 at 08:16:27
Post Tools
Regarding the Alekhine I have to correct myself. While it is true they analyse their mainline 8....e6 to a claear white advantage, they offer the alternative 8...h6 and go down a strange looking line where black loses castling rights with the e file being wide open, has a weakened kingside pawn structure, but seems to hold on in two high class correspondence games. Not a line I would go down confidently in an over the board game though.
But maybe it is playable if you investigate these positions for yourself. And this is certainly deep and narrow at the same time and you would certainly have much more knowledge than the white player.

That reminds me on Schandorffs book abaout the Semi-Slav, where he claims to have saved the opening for black. He also follows some highly complex correspondence games and after some mindboggling defensive acrobatics ends in a slightly words but holdable endgames. The big difference though is that this is not "narrow", as white has tons of critical deviations along these lines.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2891
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #26 - 12/17/15 at 22:31:54
Post Tools
idea is not so silly actually as it seems at first
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
lg
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 558
Location: Lisbon
Joined: 04/18/05
Gender: Male
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #25 - 12/17/15 at 21:14:32
Post Tools
AlbertCamus wrote on 12/16/15 at 20:54:29:
But what happens in the Alekhine section is really weird. They analyse their absolute mainline 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 dxe5 5.Nxe5 c6 6.Be2 Bf5 7.0-0 Nd7 8.Nf3 to a clear white advantage. I have never seen a repertoire book leading to a clearly worse position and the authors admitting it. I am baffled why they chose that line if they are convinced it is outright bad. Especially as I always thought in this line 6....Nd7 7.Nf3 Qc7 followed by a quick Nf4 is considered to be satisfactory for black, as in Anand-Mamedyarov, L'Ami-Smerdon and other GM encounters.


I have not yet received the book, but this looks "weird" to me. I am looking forward to see what they say about this line, since in other books this variation is given a kind of "almost respectful" evaluation.
Also agree that the Anand-Mamedyarov should have received more attention and praise from comentators.

Also, is this choice the most narrow and deep after 4.Nf3?

Finally this choice is not consistente with the wild choice agaisnt the 4PA   

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
AlbertCamus
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 3
Joined: 12/16/15
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #24 - 12/17/15 at 08:26:58
Post Tools
@ChevyBanginStyle

You are right, that is another huge gap. What is the mainstream evaluation of these lines? According to my knowledge white is slightly to clearly better, but things are very complicated which reflects in a decent score of 48% for black in my database. Additionally strong grandmasters continue playing in that way (Grigoryan, Varga).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ChevyBanginStyle
Full Member
***
Offline


2 \infty & *CRUNCH*

Posts: 238
Joined: 01/03/10
Re: Funny Sveshnikov Double Repertoire Book Incoming
Reply #23 - 12/17/15 at 06:21:12
Post Tools
OK, I get that this is a sketch of a repertoire with surprise weapons for rapid time controls, but it has some serious holes that I don't understand. Here's one that particularly stood out to me:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nc3 c6

4.e4 and 4.a4 are covered, but the other main line 4.e3 is omitted. OK, this is a transposition to a Slav, but this isn't such a worry, since 3...a6 is good. Oh wait, I get it now -- they'll cover some transposition via 3.e3 Be6!? 4.Nf3 c6 5.Nc3.

Turn to 3.e3 Be6 and I see that after 4.Nf3 c6, five moves are mentioned and none of them are 5.Nc3. This is really strange since it is the most popular move and was featured in Kornev's recent repertoire book.

Am I missing something? This seems like a huge omission.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo