Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The Yurtaev Variation (Read 3716 times)
TN
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3385
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #20 - 09/25/17 at 09:17:35
Post Tools
Berlin ftw.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobbyh64
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 261
Joined: 05/15/08
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #19 - 09/25/17 at 02:11:20
Post Tools
The Yurtaev/New Archangel is way more complicated than playing ...b5 and ...Bc5 against 5.d3 or 5.Qe2. The Yurtaev line has a lot of forced variations that lead to draws or just extremely crazy positions where Black sacs a piece for a few pawns. I'd probably play the line if there was more room for creativity and you could just play "a game of chess," but from what I've seen you don't really get to do that. I'm still trying to find a line I really like as Black against the Ruy Lopez.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mn
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 167
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 09/22/16
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #18 - 09/16/17 at 18:33:09
Post Tools
Yeah 5 0-0 poses the greatest threat because c3 and d4 is still possible.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
FreeRepublic
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 21
Location: Georgia
Joined: 06/08/17
Gender: Male
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #17 - 09/16/17 at 14:14:22
Post Tools
Panczyk and Emms wrote an excellent book "Archangel and New Archangel" in 2000. It was ahead of it's time. The book contains information that I have yet to digest, so I can recommend it even now, 17 years later. It also covers the Moller variation. There are a maze of interesting lines.

Victor Mikhalevski wrote an excellent book on the Open Ruy Lopez. He covers white alternatives that avoid the Open variation, including 5d3 (two chapters) and 5Qe2 (one chapter). After those moves, he recommends 5...b5 6Bb3 Bc5!? Black has other answers, but these tend towards the Closed Ruy Lopez, which was not black's intended choice.

I really like the Open Ruy Lopez. Still, I have to ask myself the question, if I intend to answer 5d3 and 5Qe2 with ...b5 and ...Bc5, why not play the same way against 5 castles? Why not play the New Archangel/Yurtaev variation and have a universal system against these three popular 5th moves by white?

With black intending to play ...b5 and Bc5, the three lines, 50-0, 5d3 and 5Qe2, can transpose or go their separate ways. Is there an argument that one of white's 5th moves poses a greater threat to black's intended plan?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 3385
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #16 - 08/21/17 at 07:42:30
Post Tools
If Svidler's series is a bit too detailed for your level (and it's true, the subsequent Karjakin-Svidler showed a practical issue with such sharp lines), I can recommend Adhiban's article in Yearbook 123.

Fwiw, I first read the story of the 'Yurtaev Variation' in a Forum contribution in an old Yearbook.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2839
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #15 - 08/16/17 at 20:57:36
Post Tools
bobbyh64 wrote on 08/16/17 at 20:19:55:
Is there a way to edit a post? I meant 7.d3 instead of 6.d3 and I meant to say "shuts" instead of the s-word. Shocked


I got what you meant Bobby  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobbyh64
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 261
Joined: 05/15/08
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #14 - 08/16/17 at 20:19:55
Post Tools
Is there a way to edit a post? I meant 7.d3 instead of 6.d3 and I meant to say "shuts" instead of the s-word. Shocked
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MartinC
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1919
Joined: 07/24/06
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #13 - 08/15/17 at 09:05:28
Post Tools
Especially with how nowadays you can seemingly make white play d3 with almost no effort at all Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bobbyh64
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 261
Joined: 05/15/08
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #12 - 08/15/17 at 06:42:56
Post Tools
Keano wrote on 08/15/17 at 02:16:04:
This is all very interesting.

I am currently looking at the "old/normal" Archangel with ...Bb7

If I can understand the problems there hoping I can understand the advantages of ...Bc5 line


I think the only reason the original Archangel isn't played as often as the New/Neo/Tkachiev/Yurtaev Archangel line is 6.d3. I believe Black is fine against everything else. He's probably fine against 6.d3 too, it's just that most players seem to think the pawn on d3 shits out the B on b7.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Keano
God Member
*****
Offline


Money doesn't talk, it
swears.

Posts: 2839
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 05/25/05
Gender: Male
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #11 - 08/15/17 at 02:16:04
Post Tools
This is all very interesting.

I am currently looking at the "old/normal" Archangel with ...Bb7

If I can understand the problems there hoping I can understand the advantages of ...Bc5 line
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2229
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #10 - 08/14/17 at 20:12:55
Post Tools
Great IsaVulpes, I appreciate the detailed post!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IsaVulpes
Full Member
***
Offline


No.

Posts: 137
Joined: 12/09/07
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #9 - 08/14/17 at 18:13:19
Post Tools
I have it, and while the theory looks stocksolid, it does require you to have a ton of prior knowledge about the Spanish and probably even the Archangel.
It's not a complete repertoire (so you'll need to find a solution vs Exchange etc from elsewhere), and there is very little if anything about "general considerations".
Mostly just moves, and mostly cutting out where he sees equality - which I'm sure is correct, but if you aren't sure how to continue playing, that doesn't help too much.

Certainly ended up being too high-level for me; very hard to follow, and the arising positions are oftentimes nontrivial to play, even if you have some prior experience in the Spanish; the Bc5 DOES make everything feel quite different.

If you do know stuff about the Ruy, have spent your share of time understanding what the Bc5 changes in "normal, untesting" positions compared to the Be7, and are a stronger player than myself (not very difficult, admittedly), I'm certain the theory itself is state of the art, though.
Svidler is extremely thorough and accurate - eg one line he went over later was played just the same in the Carlsen-Karjakin match, and he called it "You might hold this, but you won't have any fun" - which also happened (he instead recommends a different variation).
He is perfectly honest throughout, and clearly states where he couldn't find 100% equality, something that even books on the Ruggeldurb-Dingdong-Countergambit-System frequently refuse to do.

But yeah, it's less his thoughts on the opening, and more his moves in the opening  Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2229
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #8 - 08/11/17 at 23:26:12
Post Tools
I think it's also called the New-Archangel; anyway I see that Peter Svidler has a series on Chess24 about this, but I'm old-fashioned enough to prefer an actual book.  Still, it's hard to beat Peter Svidler giving his thoughts on an opening, so I may pick it up.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RoleyPoley
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 425
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #7 - 08/11/17 at 21:22:55
Post Tools
So, is this the same line that gets called the Neo-Archangel? As i dont play the Ruy Lopez as black or white, i get quite confused with some of these lines looking similar

I think Gawain Jones, the recent winner of the British has been playing this line (along with a game in the Modern Steinitz!)
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2229
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: The Yurtaev Variation
Reply #6 - 08/11/17 at 16:22:54
Post Tools
Thanks for the story Tony (I realize that this is an old thread).  Any good books or DVDs, etc., on this particular variation?  It's appealed to me ever since seeing a brief article in Chess Life about it, maybe 1998 or so.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo