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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Open sicilian with Bc4 (Read 3950 times)
Mikhail_Golubev
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #22 - 07/23/17 at 08:00:33
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Dear all, thanks a lot for your interest.

Regarding 6...e5, it's a second rate move - quite clearly, it's/was used regularly by several GMs, most notably Epishin and Baklan, both played it as a rule against the lower lever opponents (for the record, personally against me Epishin played the Kan System the last time and Baklan played the French Defence).

Mega Database has 4 (four) games in this line, including one rapid, with both opponents rated 2500 or higher. For comparison, there are more than 50 such games with 6...Bd7, which is also not a main line.

On the other hand, it would have been useful to know that some White players dislike 6...e5 most in the position after 6.Bc4, it would have inspired me to examine it in more detail.
  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #21 - 07/22/17 at 15:46:10
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Straggler wrote on 07/21/17 at 23:19:13:
In his new book Golubev simply says "Probably White has some edge after the aggressive 7.Nf5, meeting 7...Be6!? by 8.Qd3." The book consists of his own games, and no-one has ever played 6...e5 against him. A bit disappointing, since his coverage of the Bc4 stuff is a major reason to buy the book.


My engine also likes 8.Qd3; I started looking at 8..g6 9.Ne3 and 8..Qd7 9.Ne3, but it seems pretty easy for White to get in Nd5 under favorable conditions.  In the one game I found with 8.Qd3, Black tried 8..Nb4 and 10..d5, but that didn't work out so well.    



  
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LeeRoth
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #20 - 07/22/17 at 03:01:56
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kylemeister wrote on 07/21/17 at 19:28:16:
LeeRoth wrote on 07/21/17 at 19:05:39:
In his book, Golubev also looked briefly at 7.Nde2 and 7.Nf3, concluding that White keeps an edge.  I'll post the lines when I can, but one idea was a4 and b3, keeping the Bc4 where it is and not automatically playing Bb3 in response to ..Be6.    


Apparently you're thinking of something else; this is what he gave on those moves:

--White keeps some advantage through 7. Nde2 Be6 8. Bb3 Be7 9. 0-0 0-0 10. f4 (or 10. Kh1).
--7. Nf3 h6 8. 0-0 Be7 9. Re1 0-0 10. Nd5 Be6 11. Bb3 +=.


You're right.  Huh  Thanks for posting the lines!
  
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Straggler
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #19 - 07/21/17 at 23:19:13
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In his new book Golubev simply says "Probably White has some edge after the aggressive 7.Nf5, meeting 7...Be6!? by 8.Qd3." The book consists of his own games, and no-one has ever played 6...e5 against him. A bit disappointing, since his coverage of the Bc4 stuff is a major reason to buy the book.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #18 - 07/21/17 at 19:28:16
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LeeRoth wrote on 07/21/17 at 19:05:39:
In his book, Golubev also looked briefly at 7.Nde2 and 7.Nf3, concluding that White keeps an edge.  I'll post the lines when I can, but one idea was a4 and b3, keeping the Bc4 where it is and not automatically playing Bb3 in response to ..Be6.    


Apparently you're thinking of something else; this is what he gave on those moves:

--White keeps some advantage through 7. Nde2 Be6 8. Bb3 Be7 9. 0-0 0-0 10. f4 (or 10. Kh1).
--7. Nf3 h6 8. 0-0 Be7 9. Re1 0-0 10. Nd5 Be6 11. Bb3 +=.
  
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #17 - 07/21/17 at 19:05:39
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I looked into this a little, and it is surprisingly difficult to find something good against 6..e5.  In his old Sozin book, Golubev noted that 7.Nf5 wasn't convincing and, IIRC, gave a line beginning with 7..Bxf5.  The lines with ..Be6 also look pretty solid. 

In his book, Golubev also looked briefly at 7.Nde2 and 7.Nf3, concluding that White keeps an edge.  I'll post the lines when I can, but one idea was a4 and b3, keeping the Bc4 where it is and not automatically playing Bb3 in response to ..Be6.    
  
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #16 - 07/12/17 at 06:45:55
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kylemeister wrote on 11/05/15 at 23:34:53:
"Modernized:  The Open Sicilian" advocated the Sozin against the Classical, with the old short-castling main line.  One thing to note is that if White is happy with that, he can play 7. 0-0 instead of 7. Bb3 in the Najdorf version (still allowing the ...b5 line, but devaluing ...Nbd7, which is perhaps more challenging).


I analysed some of the Sozin lines given in that book, but wasn't convinced by the following recommendation:  1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 d6 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 Nf6 6.Nc3 e5 7.Nf5

To be honest this 6...e5 line put me off using the Sozin as a regular weapon against the Classical. Indeed I'm still not sure what White's most promising try is after 6...e5. Sad
  

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Mikhail_Golubev
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #15 - 07/12/17 at 00:00:54
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gewgaw wrote on 01/03/17 at 14:49:26:
I analyzed the Fischer-Sosin-Variation with the 13.Nf5 idea by Velimirovic and here is my nice refutation of the classical sicilian: Wink

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 Nc6 6. Bc4 e6 7. Be3 Be7 8.
Qe2 a6 9. O-O-O Qc7 10. Bb3 O-O 11. g4 Nd7 12. Rhg1 Nc5 13. Nf5 b5 14. Bd5 Bb7
15. g5 b4 16. Qh5 Ne5 (16... bxc3 17. Rg3) 17. Rg3 exf5 18. exf5 Rfc8 (18...
bxc3 19. g6) 19. g6 hxg6 20. fxg6 Bf6 21. Qh7+ Kf8 22. gxf7 Nxf7 23. Bd4 bxc3
24. Bxf6 Bxd5 25. Qxg7+ Ke8 26. Rxd5 cxb2+ 27. Kb1 Ne6 28. Qg8+ Nf8 29. Re3+
Ne5 30. Rdxe5+ dxe5 31. Rxe5+ Kd7 32. Qd5+ Qd6 33. Re7+ Kd8 34. Qxd6+ Nd7 35.
Qxd7# 1-0


15...Rfc8! is critical
  
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MNb
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #14 - 07/10/17 at 00:31:28
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kylemeister wrote on 01/06/17 at 20:35:04:
I see that the Modernized book also has 9. f4 Bd7 10. Qe2, which Golubev described as having hardly been investigated.

As 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Bc4 e6 7.Be3 Be7 8.Bb3 O-O 9.f4 Nxd4 10.Qxd4 Ng4 doesn't look attractive to me 9.Qe2 Bd7 10.f4 perhaps is an idea. Then White castles kingside if Black plays ...a6 before castling and plays the Velimirovic Attack against everything but 8...O-O 9.Qe2 Bd7. It requires some more work but is still nothing compared to the Richter-Rauser.
Against 6...Qb6 I'd prefer 7.Nxc6 bxc6 8.O-O intending 9.Be3 or 9.Bf4, gambiting the b2-pawn.
  

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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #13 - 07/09/17 at 20:15:47
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A major possibility is 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bc4 e6 7. O-O Be7 8. Bb3 O-O 9. f4 ("Other moves don't make much sense" -- Golubev, 2001) b5 ("!" -- Golubev, 2001) where Black, perhaps to the consternation of White, has sidestepped the line with ...b5 met by Qf3 (instead of f4).  Other possibilities for White include 8. a3 and 8. a4.

Unfortunately I haven't seen what (GM Mikhail) Golubev's 2017 book has to say ...
  
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #12 - 07/09/17 at 18:48:48
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Straggler wrote on 01/05/17 at 09:55:15:
I understood kylemeister to be saying that White must be happy with the 0-0 line in the Sozin (recommended by Amanov and Kavutskiy) in order to play 6.Bc4 e6 7.0-0 against the Najdorf, because Black can transpose into that Sozin line - not that White can force the transposition even if Black doesn't want it.


Agreed.
Here are a couple of lines that do not transpose:

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bc4!? e6 7. O-O!? Be7!? 8. Bb3 O-O 9. Qf3 Nbd7

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bc4!? e6 7. O-O!? Be7!? 8. Be3 O-O 9. f4 d5

I'm not sure that 6. Bc4 e6 7. O-O!? offers much by way of an advantage, but it can certainly lead to an interesting game where both players will soon be on their own.
  
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #11 - 01/06/17 at 20:35:04
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Incidentally the line given by MNb stuck in my memory as associated with a game Chandler-Rachels, and considered equal in Golubev's Sozin book of some time ago.  I see that the Modernized book also has 9. f4 Bd7 10. Qe2, which Golubev described as having hardly been investigated.
« Last Edit: 01/06/17 at 21:41:41 by kylemeister »  
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #10 - 01/06/17 at 20:27:17
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I don't think the book reaches that position. Instead of 9.0-0 it gives 9.f4, and if 9...Nxd4 not 10.Bxd4 but 10.Qxd4.
  
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MNb
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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #9 - 01/06/17 at 15:57:12
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Assuming you still own that book - what does it recommend against

  

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Re: Open sicilian with Bc4
Reply #8 - 01/05/17 at 09:55:15
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I understood kylemeister to be saying that White must be happy with the 0-0 line in the Sozin (recommended by Amanov and Kavutskiy) in order to play 6.Bc4 e6 7.0-0 against the Najdorf, because Black can transpose into that Sozin line - not that White can force the transposition even if Black doesn't want it.
  
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