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Normal Topic Panov variation (9...Nb6) (Read 1405 times)
fling
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Re: Panov variation (9...Nb6)
Reply #6 - 01/23/16 at 14:34:23
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I haven't had a detailed look at Danielsen's video, but from what I can remember, most of it was not new, but essentially the same as Schandorff presents in GM7.
  
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BABYBIRD
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Re: Panov variation (9...Nb6)
Reply #5 - 01/23/16 at 12:53:16
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fling wrote on 01/22/16 at 18:42:54:
Yet another option is to play the ...e6-line, but with 13...Nxc3 14. bxc3 and instead of 14...Qd7 as in Fischer-Euwe, 1960, Black has 14...Rb8! This line is analyzed by Schandorff in GM7, and I think it is also given by Danielsen in a Chessbase-video. Black should be totally fine here, with interesting play for both sides.


I knew this idea from Danielsen's video, but I didn't know Schandorff had also analyzed it. I will check all that stuff one of these days... Thanks!
  
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fling
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Re: Panov variation (9...Nb6)
Reply #4 - 01/22/16 at 18:49:04
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BABYBIRD wrote on 01/19/16 at 15:31:39:
- in the line 10.d4 Nd4 11.Bb5+ Nd7 12.Qa4 Nxb5 13.Qxb5 g6 14.0-0 Bg7 where White is playing the critical 15.Re1 0-0 16.Bg5, I would choose, instead of Houska's 16...Ne5, 16...Bf6 17.Bxf6 Nxf6!?, as suggested by ChessPublishing, and also played in Shanava - Ipatov, 2014.


Sorry, missed this. Yes, I have looked at it and is looks kinda like the line from Fischer-Euwe, but with Black castled instead. I think Black is ok, but there is not much of a chance to play for a win, I guess.
  
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fling
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Re: Panov variation (9...Nb6)
Reply #3 - 01/22/16 at 18:42:54
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Schandorff and Houska both give the line 10. d5 Nd4 11. Bb5+ Nd7 12. Qa4 Nxb5 13. Qxb5 g6 14. 0-0 Bg7 15. Re1 0-0 16. Bg5. I think it is Schandorff that now states "The best continuation for Black now seems to be 16...Ne5" (I don't have more than the moves in my notes here). The continuations here don't look terrible for Black. After 17. Re3, there is either 17...a6, or f6 18. Bf4 b6!?. This was played in e-mail 2007. I think it is playable, even though White seem to have an edge.

Anyway, Houska's new recommendation with ...g6 was more interesting for me, because I can reach the line also from the English (as Black).

Yet another option is to play the ...e6-line, but with 13...Nxc3 14. bxc3 and instead of 14...Qd7 as in Fischer-Euwe, 1960, Black has 14...Rb8! This line is analyzed by Schandorff in GM7, and I think it is also given by Danielsen in a Chessbase-video. Black should be totally fine here, with interesting play for both sides.
  
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Re: Panov variation (9...Nb6)
Reply #2 - 01/22/16 at 18:20:52
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BABYBIRD wrote on 01/19/16 at 15:31:39:
What is the problem (for Black) with the Panov line 4...Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.cxd Nxd5 8.Qb3 Bxf3 9.gxf Nb6 (instead of 9...e6)?
Houska's coverage in the 1st edition of her Caro Kann work?
Or the line in itself?
Actually, I intend to play the lines sugested by Houska, but I will choose something else in 3 variations :
- instead of 10. Be3 e6 11.Rg1 Qc7?!, very optimistic but probably false, I would try 11...g6 12.0-0-0 Be7;  the last game in my datebase is Kosten - Prie, 2008, and Eric should have won...
- in the line 10.d4 Nd4 11.Qd1 e5 12.dxe, I would play 12...Bc5 instead of 12...fxe (too intricate for me!)
- in the line 10.d4 Nd4 11.Bb5+ Nd7 12.Qa4 Nxb5 13.Qxb5 g6 14.0-0 Bg7 where White is playing the critical 15.Re1 0-0 16.Bg5, I would choose, instead of Houska's 16...Ne5, 16...Bf6 17.Bxf6 Nxf6!?, as suggested by ChessPublishing, and also played in Shanava - Ipatov, 2014.
I do agreee that in the lines 1 and 3, a draw is more likely than a win for Black; but is it basically different in the famous rook endgame (9...e6)?
Or have I missed something and should I consider leaving the Nb6 variation?


In Houska's 2nd edition she writes:

"In my original work I recommended the following line:
6 Nf3 Bg4 7 cxd5 Nxd5 8 Qb3 Bxf3 9 gxf3 Nb6 However, after 10 d5! I was unable to solve all the problems which White has managed to create in the past seven years, so it was back to the drawing board.

My next idea was to recommend the Panov Endgame after 9...e6. However, I soon realized I couldn't add anything new to existing theory, although it is a perfectly acceptable way to play as Black."
  
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Re: Panov variation (9...Nb6)
Reply #1 - 01/22/16 at 17:07:05
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BABYBIRD wrote on 01/19/16 at 15:31:39:
What is the problem (for Black) with the Panov line 4...Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.cxd Nxd5 8.Qb3 Bxf3 9.gxf Nb6 (instead of 9...e6)?


Fischer said of the .. e6 line that such variations would make life difficult for a chess playing computer. Against that, engines seem to prefer .. e6 to .. Nb6. I doubt there's a great deal in it and practical advice would be to play the line where you feel most comfortable.

Engines seem to think the endings resulting from the .. e6 variation are very level.
  
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BABYBIRD
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Panov variation (9...Nb6)
01/19/16 at 15:31:39
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What is the problem (for Black) with the Panov line 4...Nf6 5.Nc3 Nc6 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.cxd Nxd5 8.Qb3 Bxf3 9.gxf Nb6 (instead of 9...e6)?
Houska's coverage in the 1st edition of her Caro Kann work?
Or the line in itself?
Actually, I intend to play the lines sugested by Houska, but I will choose something else in 3 variations :
- instead of 10. Be3 e6 11.Rg1 Qc7?!, very optimistic but probably false, I would try 11...g6 12.0-0-0 Be7;  the last game in my datebase is Kosten - Prie, 2008, and Eric should have won...
- in the line 10.d4 Nd4 11.Qd1 e5 12.dxe, I would play 12...Bc5 instead of 12...fxe (too intricate for me!)
- in the line 10.d4 Nd4 11.Bb5+ Nd7 12.Qa4 Nxb5 13.Qxb5 g6 14.0-0 Bg7 where White is playing the critical 15.Re1 0-0 16.Bg5, I would choose, instead of Houska's 16...Ne5, 16...Bf6 17.Bxf6 Nxf6!?, as suggested by ChessPublishing, and also played in Shanava - Ipatov, 2014.
I do agreee that in the lines 1 and 3, a draw is more likely than a win for Black; but is it basically different in the famous rook endgame (9...e6)?
Or have I missed something and should I consider leaving the Nb6 variation?
  
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