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Normal Topic Does 7...Nbd7 in the QGD have a name? (Read 1113 times)
Methodchess
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Re: Does 7...Nbd7 in the QGD have a name?
Reply #4 - 02/29/16 at 03:11:52
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Thanks, I will try to get hold of a copy.

I just looked at Postny-I. Sokolov, 2015. That was a cool game, I don't think 7.e3 by Postny is the best though. I think 7.a3 Bxc3+ 8.bxc3 c5 9.Nd2 Qa5 this is following another Sokolov game from 2011 e.g. Shimanov-Sokolov, 2011. Instead of Shimanov's 10.Qb3 engines prefer 10.Qc2 0-0 11.e3 Re8 12.Qb2 Nh5 13.Bd6 c4 14.h3 Qa6 15.Bh2 this is an engine sequence with the intent seeming to be: to preserve White's bishop-pair. It's still assessed as equal but maybe the bishop-pair is enough in longterm for symbolic advantage. 5.Bb4 definitely seems the way to go for active play though. I personally prefer both 5...c6/dxc4 as I like calmer waters.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Does 7...Nbd7 in the QGD have a name?
Reply #3 - 02/29/16 at 02:36:48
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By the way, there was an article about 4...Nbd7 5. Bf4 dc in Yearbook 113 (2014).  I was also reminded of 5...Bb4 (unlike 5...dc, not an old standard book move to my knowledge) as in Postny-I. Sokolov 2015 which appeared in Chess Publishing.
  
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Methodchess
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Re: Does 7...Nbd7 in the QGD have a name?
Reply #2 - 02/29/16 at 01:07:32
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The fashionable continuation for White does seem to be after 7...Nbd7 8.Rc1 c5. However, White does have several alternatives on move 8 that all seem reasonable i.e. 8.Bd3, 8.Qc2, 8.cxd5 and 8.Be2 but 8...c5 does now appear to be the mainline among the top players when it's playable, in particular against: 8.Rc1, 8.Qc2 and 8.Be2.

Looking in Mega Database 2016 Radulski seems to have been the first GM to use 8...c5 in his game against Zakhartsov from 2009. Radjabov was the first SGM to use it against MVL in 2013. Now Kramnik seems to be the main exponent of it when his opponents let him reach these positions. It may not be that relevant considering all the SGMs play 5.Bf4 nowadays, however, for players that still get games with 5.Bg5 I think these developments are interesting to follow. Maybe this is common knowledge, I have only started looking at this myself over last couple weeks. Mainly from the 4...Nbd7 move-order, however, I may just play ...Nbd7 on move 7 from the traditional route there for Black, as I'm not sure what to make of positions after 4...Nbd7 5.Bf4, Kramnik lost a bad game here against Kasimdzhanov in 2014. Adams also taken down by Gelfand in 2013. They both used different set-ups to the one I'd probably go for though.

I like this following set-up used by Grachev and Zvjaginsev: 4...Nbd7 5.Bf4 dxc4 6.e3 Nb6 7.Bxc4 Nxc4 8.Qa4+ c6 9.Qxc4 Nd5 now there are several options but will just show most testing 10.Bg3 Qb6 11.Qe2 Bb4 12.0-0 Nxc3 13.bxc3 Bxc3 14.Rab1 Qd8= there is a game that reached this position Jianu-Marin 2014 that ended in Black win.

The alternatives on move 10 for White seem to be 10.Rc1, 10.0-0 and 10.Be5, all of which lead to nothing as well. If anyone knows a path to +/= for White in this line I would be interested to see it. If not, then it could force White players into abandoning 5.Bf4 and going back to 5.Bg5 which is more interesting to play imo.

Edit in:

I think I will create a new thread to discuss this 4...Nbd7 in more detail. This thread I was mainly interested in knowing if a name existed for 7...Nbd7.
  
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RdC
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Re: Does 7...Nbd7 in the QGD have a name?
Reply #1 - 02/29/16 at 00:16:17
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I thought the key Kramnik idea was that .. c5 was playable. The moves .. h6 and  .. Nbd7 being just part of the route to get there.

It's a complex of various ideas blending together in related manners. I'm not sure the traditional opening book approach of having separate chapters for various named systems is that helpful towards an understanding of what works and what doesn't.
  
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Methodchess
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Does 7...Nbd7 in the QGD have a name?
02/28/16 at 23:49:10
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I mean in the position where Black normally chooses between 7...Ne4 (Lasker) or 7...b6 (Tartakower/TMB system).

The closest I have come to finding a name is in Matthew Sadler's QGD book where he includes 7...h6 in his 7th move alternatives section of the 6...Nbd7 Orthodox Variation, however, it seems possible that Black can still transpose into what he calls "Lasker Hyrbrid's" and I also assume it's possible to transpose into a Tartakower, stay in Classical QGD lines or even go into some kind of Hybrid Bf4 kind of systems. Looking through games starting from 7...Nbd7, I have found games starting here with different ECO names ranging from: QGD Classical: 7.Rc1, QGD: 5.Bf4 and QGD: 4.Bg5 Be7: Lines without ...h6 and 6...h6 7.Bxf6 is the strangest one considering ...h6 has been played.

Anyway I'm interested in the name as I'm considering taking up this variation in place of my Tartakower as the positions seem less mapped out. Also I have been impressed by Kramnik's success with it over the last couple years. I'm not sure if 7...Nbd7 has a name, or warrants one given the transpositions available, here's some I thought of in mean time:

Classical with ...h6
Classical Hybrid Bf4 System with h6
Classical Hybrid System
QGD Chameleon Variation with h6
QGD 7...Nbd7 with h6
QGD Kramnik-Grachev Variation
  
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