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Normal Topic Challenging 5.Bf4 from 4...Nbd7 QGD move-order (Read 1324 times)
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Re: Challenging 5.Bf4 from 4...Nbd7 QGD move-order
Reply #5 - 12/06/17 at 21:44:39
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Methodchess wrote on 02/29/16 at 02:38:38:
I like this following set-up used by Grachev and Zvjaginsev in particular but game I used below was from Jianu-Marin, 2014: 4...Nbd7


I just downloaded Nigel Davies new book on the Queen's Gambit Declined. 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Nbd7 is his main recommendation. He considers 5Bf4 and 5cxd exd 6Bf4. Right up your alley.

His second repertoire proceeds with 4 ... Be7 5 Bf4 0-0 6 e3 b6.
  
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Re: Challenging 5.Bf4 from 4...Nbd7 QGD move-order
Reply #4 - 12/06/17 at 17:25:44
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Methodchess wrote on 02/29/16 at 02:38:38:
Further to the above I also think the following line is worth considering as an alternative to 5...dxc4, instead play 5...c6


I continued on your on-screen board. The final position looks so much like the Exchange variation that I thought it would transpose. It's not so simple. In some lines of the exchange variation white prefers Bf4 to the exchange of bishops. The main variation has black's knight on f8 instead of d7. I found one line with an early Nf3 (not considered best) where black is one tempo ahead. So your sequence puts black one tempo behind in a variation that is generally avoided by white. So it turns out that comparing lines is not so easy!

  
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Re: Challenging 5.Bf4 from 4...Nbd7 QGD move-order
Reply #3 - 12/05/17 at 21:05:52
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Methodchess wrote on 02/29/16 at 02:38:38:
I like this following set-up used by Grachev and Zvjaginsev in particular but game I used below was from Jianu-Marin, 2014: 4...Nbd7 5.Bf4 dxc4 6.e3 Nb6 7.Bxc4 Nxc4 8.Qa4+ c6 9.Qxc4 Nd5


Thanks for the excellent post. I've been curious about this also. It was recommended for black in a book (perhaps by Lalic) not in my current possession.

ChessPublishing (CP) favors white somewhat after:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 Nbd7 5. Bf4 dxc4!? 6. e3 Nb6 7. Bxc4 Nxc4 8. Qa4+ c6 9. Qxc4 Nd5 10. O-O Nxf4 11. exf4 Be7 12. Rfe1 O-O 13. Rad1 Qd6 14Ne5 f6 15. Nd3 b5 16. Qb3 Qxd4 17. Ne5 Qxf4, with many moves considered on move 18, or simply 14.g3. StockFish thinks black is doing allright. Perhaps they are both right.

CP gives a positive nod to 5...Bb4, but without analysis. It resembles the Ragozin variation, but with white's queen bishop on f4 instead of g5. I suspect this difference favors black as a bishop on g5 puts more pressure on black's position.
  
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Re: Challenging 5.Bf4 from 4...Nbd7 QGD move-order
Reply #2 - 05/13/16 at 01:39:25
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Methodchess wrote on 02/29/16 at 02:38:38:
I would be interested to see if anyone can come up with a path to +/= for White somewhere after 5.Bf4.

Strictly speaking not me, but I'd still like to point out 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Bf4.
  

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Re: Challenging 5.Bf4 from 4...Nbd7 QGD move-order
Reply #1 - 05/11/16 at 18:51:13
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Interesting, thanks for this post.
  
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Challenging 5.Bf4 from 4...Nbd7 QGD move-order
02/29/16 at 02:38:38
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In another thread I created regarding a query about the name of the 7...Nbd7 variation of the QGD, I mentioned in passing the line in the title of this thread, I'm interested to discuss this in more depth with any others that are knowledgeable of this line, or are interested in looking into it.

I like this following set-up used by Grachev and Zvjaginsev in particular but game I used below was from Jianu-Marin, 2014: 4...Nbd7 5.Bf4 dxc4 6.e3 Nb6 7.Bxc4 Nxc4 8.Qa4+ c6 9.Qxc4 Nd5 now there are several options but will just show most testing: 10.Bg3 Qb6 11.Qe2 Bb4 12.0-0 Nxc3 13.bxc3 Bxc3 14.Rab1 Qd8= there is a game that reached this position Jianu-Marin 2014 that ended in a Black win.

The alternatives on move 10 for White seem to be 10.Rc1, 10.0-0 and 10.Be5, all of which lead to nothing as well as far as I can tell. If anyone knows a path to +/= for White in this line I would be interested to see it. If not, this could force White players into abandoning 5.Bf4 from the 4...Nbd7 move-order and going back to 5.Bg5 which is more interesting to play imo.

Further to the above I also think the following line is worth considering as an alternative to 5...dxc4, instead play 5...c6 and we have the 5.Bg5 Semi-Slav position except the bishop is on f4 instead of g5 for White, and Black has the added move Nbd7. I'm not sure if this favours either side but I think this is an interesting line for further research as both Kramnik and Carlsen tried it out once each, both were blitz games played in 2014. Carlsen drew his against Grischuk in WCh blitz in Dubai, 2014. Kramnik lost against Aronian in Norway Blitz, 2014. I prefer the way Carlsen handled the position, although I prefer a different continuation to what Carlsen played in his game. I have included very brief analysis of 5...dxc4 and 5...c6 in pgn games below:





I would be interested to see if anyone can come up with a path to +/= for White somewhere after 5.Bf4. If not, hopefully we may see a return to 5.Bg5 in the future. I would rather play either of the two aforementioned lines as Black, than memorise the theory needed to play 4...Be7 5.Bf4. I also think both lines pass the "Carlsen test", by this I mean: I don't think Carlsen would accept a draw in either of these lines for Black.
  
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