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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Taking advantage of delayed c4 (Read 3983 times)
ReneDescartes
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #20 - 04/25/18 at 11:27:27
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kylemeister wrote on 04/11/18 at 07:50:07:
RdC wrote on 04/11/18 at 06:56:59:
In his book on playing e3 against everything, Axel Smith suggests a line of play running 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. c4 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 and now the tempo wasting 6. e4 claiming the resulting structure favourable to White.


Or 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. e3 O-O 5. Be2 d5 6. cd Nxd5 7. e4 Nb6 8. O-O (which has been played by e.g. Grischuk).  After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5 4.Bg2 cd 5. Nxd4 e5 6. Nb3, 6...Be7 7. 0-0 0-0 (which comes to the same thing) appears to be respectable. 


Then I foresee a new book by Adorjan, in the thoroughly modern spirit of Smith. Sequel to Black is Back!, it's White is Black!



« Last Edit: 04/25/18 at 15:02:32 by ReneDescartes »  
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kylemeister
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #19 - 04/11/18 at 07:50:07
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 04/11/18 at 04:11:20:
In place of 6...h6, the ECO note continues 6...Nc6 7.O-O Be7 and follows Spiridonov - Radev, Decin 1975. Another difference of opinion: ECO 1976 (Cvetkovic/V.Sokolov) gives "unclear", ECO 1987 (same authors) gives "+=".


Pachman in Das Damengambit (1993) cited Spiridonov-Radev as +=, and gave instead 7...h6"!=".

RdC wrote on 04/11/18 at 06:56:59:
In his book on playing e3 against everything, Axel Smith suggests a line of play running 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. c4 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 and now the tempo wasting 6. e4 claiming the resulting structure favourable to White.


Or 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nf3 Bg7 4. e3 O-O 5. Be2 d5 6. cd Nxd5 7. e4 Nb6 8. O-O (which has been played by e.g. Grischuk).  After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5 4.Bg2 cd 5. Nxd4 e5 6. Nb3, 6...Be7 7. 0-0 0-0 (which comes to the same thing) appears to be respectable. 

  
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RdC
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #18 - 04/11/18 at 06:56:59
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 04/11/18 at 04:11:20:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5 4.Bg2 cxd4. I am sure black is okay. But this is the type of opening that I would like to play with either color - unbalanced but not super-sharp.


It's going to depend on how you evaluate the positions where Black has pawns on e5 and d5 with White's Knight on b3.

In his book on playing e3 against everything, Axel Smith suggests a line of play running 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. e3 Bg7 4. c4 d5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 and now the tempo wasting 6. e4 claiming the resulting structure favourable to White. A key point is that a transposition to the Grunfeld is avoided by not playing Nc3 until ..Nxc3 isn't possible.
  
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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #17 - 04/11/18 at 04:11:20
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1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5 4.Bg2 cxd4. I am sure black is okay. But this is the type of opening that I would like to play with either color - unbalanced but not super-sharp.

A difference of opinion concerning ...h6: 5.Nxd4 e5 6.Nb3 h6. In ECO 1987 they gave "+= Kurajica", whereas NCO 1999 gave "=". It's my view that ...h6 is a logical move, but it's too soon to be attaching any evaluation to the position.

In place of 6...h6, the ECO note continues 6...Nc6 7.O-O Be7 and follows Spiridonov - Radev, Decin 1975. Another difference of opinion: ECO 1976 (Cvetkovic/V.Sokolov) gives "unclear", ECO 1987 (same authors) gives "+=". But let us pause here after 7...Be7.
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The above position should be compared with the Smyslov Variation of the QGA. Because of the tempo difference between ...c5xd4 and ...d5xc4, it actually happens that in the reversed variation white preserves his extra tempo. The following variation, although not pretending to be best play by either side, illustrates the tempo.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 g6 5.Bxc4 Bg7 6.Nc3 O-O 7.e4 Nfd7 8.Be2 Nb6.
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SpiridonovRadev1975.pgn ( 0 KB | 42 Downloads )
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kylemeister
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #16 - 04/11/18 at 01:31:27
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IsaVulpes wrote on 04/11/18 at 01:06:23:
I like the system of keeping the Nb8 at home to prevent a reversed Grünfeld.
After castles, 5. ..Bd7 is a semi-useful waiting move, preparing Nc6 as you'd be able to recapture with the Bishop, and White doesn't appear to have anything better than 6.Nd4: e5 7.Knightsomewhere , when Black has the center and looks at least fine.


So a possibility is 5...Bd7 6. Nxd4 e5 7. Nb3 Be6, transposing to 4...e6 5. 0-0 cd 6. Nxd4 e5 7. Nb3 Be6 (ECO in 2004 had that as leading to equality), but there is also 7...Bc6.
  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #15 - 04/11/18 at 01:06:23
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 04/09/18 at 20:54:10:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5 is interesting. [..]. After 4.Bg2 would you play 4...cxd4, and then how to answer 5.O-O ... ?

I like the system of keeping the Nb8 at home to prevent a reversed Grünfeld.
After castles, 5. ..Bd7 is a semi-useful waiting move, preparing Nc6 as you'd be able to recapture with the Bishop, and White doesn't appear to have anything better than 6.Nd4: e5 7.Knightsomewhere , when Black has the center and looks at least fine.

Gustafsson has a short video on this in Part4 of his Black repertoire series. I think he disliked 5. ..h6 for some reason, but for the life of me I can't remember why :/
  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #14 - 04/10/18 at 22:38:28
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kylemeister wrote on 04/10/18 at 17:25:50:
One reference for 5...h6:  it was given by Nunn in NCO (late '90s), with 6. b3 allegedly leading to an edge for White.


Thanks!

6b3 (Bb2 Bxd4) is another way for white to retrieve the pawn. In my games data base, it's under D02 with many continuations and no main line. Black scores equal in the small number of games.

My approach here as black is to avoid reverse Grunfeld exchange variation lines that proceed from ...Nc6 Nxd4 ...e5. So in that vein, I like the logic of 6b3 e3 7Bb2 Bc5.

Usmanov, V-Popov, Val 85th ch-St Petersburg 0-1 St Petersburg RUS Round 1 2012


  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #13 - 04/10/18 at 17:25:50
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FreeRepublic wrote on 04/10/18 at 16:52:22:
Your question gets to the heart of the matter. I suggest 5...h6!?

Black intends to answer 6Nxd4 with e5. White could play 6Bf4 instead. Then perhaps 6...e6 7Nxd4 Nbd7 threatening ...e5. Or 6...Nbd7 7Qxd4 e6, intending 8...Bc5.

By the way, 5...h6!? is not my idea, but I would have to do some research to give for proper attribution.


One reference for 5...h6:  it was given by Nunn in NCO (late '90s), with 6. b3 allegedly leading to an edge for White.
  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #12 - 04/10/18 at 16:56:11
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My first PGN post attempt follows. If it is garbled, please remove it.

  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #11 - 04/10/18 at 16:52:22
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 04/09/18 at 20:54:10:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5 is interesting. ... black needs to be mindful of his next moves. ... After 4.Bg2 would you play 4...cxd4, and then how to answer 5.O-O ... ?


Your question gets to the heart of the matter. I suggest 5...h6!?

Black intends to answer 6Nxd4 with e5. White could play 6Bf4 instead. Then perhaps 6...e6 7Nxd4 Nbd7 threatening ...e5. Or 6...Nbd7 7Qxd4 e6, intending 8...Bc5.

By the way, 5...h6!? is not my idea, but I would have to do some research to give for proper attribution.


  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #10 - 04/10/18 at 16:39:17
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Vachier Lagrave and Meier recently played a game ending in a draw in the Grenke Chess Classic. It began:
1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 e6 4.O-O Be7 5.d4 b5
I found it at chess.com.
  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #9 - 04/09/18 at 20:54:10
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1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 c5 is interesting. If black does not want to end up in a Classical Tarrasch, he needs to be mindful of his next moves. E.g., what does one do against the plan 4.Bg2, 5.O-O, 6.c4, 7.cxd5 ? ...d5xc4 is one option, but then it's a Catalan again. A Reversed Grunfeld is also lurking. After 4.Bg2 would you play 4...cxd4, and then how to answer 5.O-O ... ?

Of course, if black does want to end up in a Classical Tarrasch, then 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 is no problem at all.

I noticed Baburin playing 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 g6 and transposing into a Fianchetto Grunfeld. He made the comment that he played it so much as white, he was ready to play it as black.
  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #8 - 04/09/18 at 16:34:41
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Laramonet wrote on 08/25/16 at 16:35:47:
Playing the QGD and wanting to face the Catalan with a Bb4+ system, the move-order 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 annoys me


Me too!

I think I may have found the complete answer - 3...c5! Or perhaps I have deluded myself. Anyway, take a look and tell me what you think.
  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #7 - 03/06/18 at 19:28:38
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White can start with 1Nf3 and transpose to a Catalan, often with a delayed c4. White, as your argued, may move-order black out of his favorite reply to the Catalan. Here is an extremely rare line that may still be OK for black:

1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 Nc6!? (intending a reversed Pirc) 3. d4 (Catalan) e6 4. Bg2 Bd6!? 5. c4 Nf6 6. O-O O-O. Black contemplates dxc and e5.
  
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Re: Taking advantage of delayed c4
Reply #6 - 03/06/18 at 19:17:03
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I have not experience with your final position. It looks good to me.

I looked at your idea in a related position after:

1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 e6 3. Bg2 Nf6 4. O-O b5!?

Here 5d4 Bb7 would get to your position. However 5d3 taking the game towards a King's Indian Attack may be better.
  
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