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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess (Read 48685 times)
FreeRepublic
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #63 - 05/19/22 at 20:56:21
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After 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. Nc3 Bb4!? 5. Bg5 dxc4 6. e4 c5 7. Bxc4 cxd4 8. Nxd4, Pert champions  8...Qa5!? instead of the main line 8...Bxc3ch. The two moves may or may not transpose. Panczyk and Ilczuk also cover both moves. I'm pretty much sold on the idea that 8...Qa5 is the easier and more solid continuation.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #62 - 01/16/22 at 16:05:42
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The line is 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. g3 c6 5. Bg2 Bd6 6. O-O Nbd7 7. Nc3 O-O 8. Nd2! and e2-e4 comes (various move orders are possible).  The loose bishop on d6 gives White a tempo back when Black captures on e4 and White takes with his knight on d2.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #61 - 01/16/22 at 02:26:19
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FreeRepublic wrote on 10/22/21 at 01:27:33:
ErictheRed wrote on 07/24/17 at 19:50:17:
Pert does a great job in the anti-Catalan chapter from what I noticed;


I've just started looking at it:
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 Bb4+ 5. Bd2 Bd6

ChessPub calls this the Ukrainian variation. CP is positive in the introduction to the line and I have not gone further.

There are several ways for black to play 4...Bb4ch, or 4...dxc 5Bg2 Bb4ch. The distinctive thing about the Ukranian/Pert variation is the retreat ...Bd6. Pert often turns this into a Stonewall Dutch type of position.

For starters, the Dutch formation remains an option. Yes, Pert often goes that way, but it is not mandatory. Another thing is ...Bd6 in the Stonewall Dutch (SD) became fashionable a few years ago. This is not a novel piece placement.

Obviously black lost a tempo with Bb4ch-Bd6. That would be a concern if the white bishop were well placed on d2. However, I'm not aware that white ever chooses to play Bd2 in the SD. Instead, white commonly plays b3 and either Bb2 or Ba6. Attempting that here will cost three tempos (Bd2-Bc1-Bb2), putting white a tempo behind normal SD lines.

A major line in the SD has black playing ...Bd6 and white answering Bf4. That could happen here too, with players on tempo. The only thing is that black may not have committed to the Dutch (...Ne4 ...f5) structure yet. I'm not sure.

Pert also covers Bg5 lines on tempo. These are somewhat rare in the SD, but not unheard of.

The Ukrainian/Pert variation has good win/loss statistics, so that may be a good macro indicator. It might lead to an improved Stonewall Dutch. That could be very important. My biggest problem is that I don't play the Stonewall Dutch!


I will quickly add to this, explaining a further key point of Bb4+ then back, to Bd6 or Be7.
Not just displacing the bishop, which gets in the way on d2, and is better on c1 ('Shall I go to f4, or b2/a3 - I will wait and decide later' - like waiting on the weather report before deciding your attire for the day, perhaps). It also takes the d2 square from the f3-knight, which goes there in one line to support a quick e4 (the c3 knight going naturally to c3). Bologan gives this, iirc, and I am sure it has come up hereabouts too.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #60 - 01/15/22 at 19:36:42
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Nernstian59 wrote on 12/31/21 at 02:55:39:
Cornette's main recommendation is also 5...c6.


Thanks for the response.

We seem to have a thicket of variations, with options at every turn. For example in your sequence there are the following branch points: 5...c5, or 6...Bf5, or 7h4. Earlier yet 5a3, or 4a3, or 4e3. I think Black is challenged, but seems to hang in there.

This provides an alternative to pairing the Ragozin/Vienna with the Nimzo-Indian and English, or pairing the Ragozin/Vienna with the Tartakover and QGD exchange variation, etc. Pick your poison!
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #59 - 12/31/21 at 02:55:39
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Cornette's main recommendation is also 5...c6.  He notes that Pert came to the same conclusion in "Playing the Ragozin".  The main line in Cornette's analysis continues 6.e3 Ne7 7.Bd3 Bf5 8.Nge2 Bxd3 9.Qxd3 Ng6 10.Bg3 Nd7 arriving at equality by move 13.

Cornette also provides brief analysis of 5...Ne7 and 5...Nf6, mostly to show that they're inferior to 5...c6.  He cites Kornev's book in giving 6.Qa4+ as a good reply to 5...Ne7.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #58 - 12/30/21 at 20:20:55
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Hans Berliner addressed 1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Bb4 a long time ago in "My System." As a matter of historical interest, I would be curious to know his answer, if anyone has that.

After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. cxd5 exd5 5. Bf4, Pert says that both Kornev and Watson continue with 5...Ne7. Pert considers 5...c6 more exact and he provides analysis.

GM Max Illingworth, ChessPublishing, suggests 5...c5. instead. After 5...c5 6. dxc5 Nf6 7. e3 O-O 8. Bd3 Bxc5, he notes that we have transposed to a position that can be reached from the Alatortsev (1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Be7) variation. After 9. Nge2 Nc6 10. O-O both 10...d4 and 10...Bg4 are interesting.

Does anyone know what continuation(s) Matthieu Cornette analyzes in his book "The Complete Ragozin"?
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #57 - 10/22/21 at 01:27:33
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ErictheRed wrote on 07/24/17 at 19:50:17:
Pert does a great job in the anti-Catalan chapter from what I noticed;


I've just started looking at it:
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 Bb4+ 5. Bd2 Bd6

ChessPub calls this the Ukrainian variation. CP is positive in the introduction to the line and I have not gone further.

There are several ways for black to play 4...Bb4ch, or 4...dxc 5Bg2 Bb4ch. The distinctive thing about the Ukranian/Pert variation is the retreat ...Bd6. Pert often turns this into a Stonewall Dutch type of position.

For starters, the Dutch formation remains an option. Yes, Pert often goes that way, but it is not mandatory. Another thing is ...Bd6 in the Stonewall Dutch (SD) became fashionable a few years ago. This is not a novel piece placement.

Obviously black lost a tempo with Bb4ch-Bd6. That would be a concern if the white bishop were well placed on d2. However, I'm not aware that white ever chooses to play Bd2 in the SD. Instead, white commonly plays b3 and either Bb2 or Ba6. Attempting that here will cost three tempos (Bd2-Bc1-Bb2), putting white a tempo behind normal SD lines.

A major line in the SD has black playing ...Bd6 and white answering Bf4. That could happen here too, with players on tempo. The only thing is that black may not have committed to the Dutch (...Ne4 ...f5) structure yet. I'm not sure.

Pert also covers Bg5 lines on tempo. These are somewhat rare in the SD, but not unheard of.

The Ukrainian/Pert variation has good win/loss statistics, so that may be a good macro indicator. It might lead to an improved Stonewall Dutch. That could be very important. My biggest problem is that I don't play the Stonewall Dutch!
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #56 - 10/20/21 at 20:48:52
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I addressed one move order that could lead to the famous Botvinnik-Capablanca game. I missed the move order of the query. Try again:

After 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. e3 Nf6 5. a3 Bc3 6. bc3, Pert diverges with 6...c6. To my eyes 6...c6 appears incredibly passive. Yet fireworks can soon erupt.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #55 - 10/20/21 at 19:08:46
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fjd wrote on 11/24/16 at 23:53:59:
So is the Botvinnik-Capablanca 4 e3 Nf6 5 a3 thingy meant to be okay for Black now? Last I checked it still looked rather pleasant for White.


I would want to avoid playing the black side in that famous game. I've spent a little time looking at Pert's analysis of 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4. He provides some fascinating stuff that one might encounter in actual play.

As far as I can tell, the greatest concern black has occurs after:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. a3 Bxc3+ 5. bxc3 d5 6. cd5 ed5 7. e3 Bf5 8. f3 O-O 9. Ne2

Pert looks at 9...c5 and 9...Re8. Here 9...Nc6 has done pretty well in high rated games and is preferred by my engine.

We've avoided Botvinnik-Capablanca. I'm too confused at the moment to tell you when.

As to the position after 9.Ne2, I suggest looking at it with one's own eyes. It's just as dangerous as it looks. At the moment, it seems to me that if one can talk oneself into liking this position as black, the entire concept (1c4 e6 2Nc3 d5 3d4 Bb4) becomes viable.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #54 - 10/20/21 at 18:50:44
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CanadianClub wrote on 08/13/17 at 22:05:23:
You can copy-paste each variation to a local document, by the way.


I have not been able to do this using an ebook I purchased from Forward Chess.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #53 - 10/18/21 at 21:58:45
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MartinC wrote on 11/24/16 at 16:18:26:
Intriguing to see the 1 d4 d5  2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 move order apparently now felt respectable enough to fit into a QC opening book.


I just bought Pert's book and impressed by its breadth and depth.

I was surprised that Pert and Cornette, in their respective books, covered the accelerated Ragozin: 1d4 d5 2c4 e6 3Nc3 Bb4. This is a very small part of each book, but still worth noting.

I "knew" those moves to be bad for black ever since Hans Berliner covered it in his newspaper columns "My System." I'm not aware of anyone advocating this sequence prior to Pert and Cornette.

I put it squarely in the "Dangerous Weapons" (DW) category. Now I feel obliged to digress. I bought the entire DW series and still refer to those books periodically. The words "dangerous weapons" do not convey the same impression as "main line" or "rock-solid," and that is as it should be. I can think of one DW line that has not stood up to (engine) scrutiny. But I can also think of a DW recommendation that went on to become a major line at every level of play.

As to the accelerated Ragozin, it's great if it works. The move order has various advantages, some previously mentioned. I think it provides a nice answer to the English opening:  1c4 e6 2Nc3 d5 3d4 Bb4. Also there is no need to concern oneself with the main lines of the Queen's Gambit Declined exchange variation.

Does it work? I'm still somewhat skeptical. If black is well prepared and white is not, then it should lead to a reasonable game. To put it differently, if I prepare this as black, I should be O.K. in many of my games.

I think these strong players, Pert and Cornette, have advanced novel ideas that will deny white players the "refutation" that they might be expecting. It would be interesting to know the extent of overlap from these original thinkers.

Perhaps the line should still get the disclaimer used in the DW series: "roll the dice."
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #52 - 08/06/21 at 21:21:23
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Playing the Ragozin by Richard Pert, The Complete Ragozin by Matthieu Cornette, and The Queen's Gambit Declined: Vienna by Jacek Ilczuk and Krzystof Panczyk cover related lines.

How to distinguish between the Vienna and the Ragozin? I think it is in black's choice after the moves: 1d4 Nf6 2c4 e6 3Nf3 d5 4Nc3 Bb4 5Bg5. The Vienna variation is reached after 5...dxc, which opens the position. The Ragozin variation continues with 5...h6, which keeps the position closed.

I think Pert's book is misnamed because when he comes to the aforementioned position, he chooses 5...dxc. He covers it in chapters 4 through 7. What are ostensibly two books on the Ragozin and one the Vienna, are really one book on the Ragozin and two books on the Vienna.

The two more recent books, by Pert and Cornette, are repertoire books. They give, more or less, complete repertoire's for black. The book by Ilczuk and Panczyk, covers all lines in the Vienna, as defined above.

So while Pert gives his lines in the Vienna and against white's anti-Vienna deviations, Ilczuk and Panczyk cover all lines of the Vienna, leaving anti-Vienna lines to others. Cornette's works is like Pert's, but he ignores the Vienna and covers the Ragozin instead.

Repertoire books attempt to give one side, black or white, all the lines they need to know in one book. A book covering all aspects of a single opening may be more suitable for both white and black players, and for those who want to consider lines not chosen by the author of a repertoire book.

Both the Vienna and Ragozin pair well with the Nimzo-Indian. Add the Mikenas line against the English for a thematic repertoire for black.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #51 - 11/25/18 at 18:22:47
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Arnaudov wrote on 11/24/18 at 18:49:34:
MartinC wrote on 11/24/16 at 16:18:26:
Intriguing to see the 1 d4 d5  2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 move order apparently now felt respectable enough to fit into a QC opening book.


Digging around I think I found an obscure line that is not in Pert and looks good for White. What think ye, folks more clever than I?

3...Bb4 4 Bf4 Nf6 5 Qa4+ Nc6 6 e3 0-0 7 Nf3

Huh

4...dxc4 looks fine for black, and is maybe the reason why Bf4 is much more played after first taking on d5, without this exchange the knight on g8 can go to d5
Something like 4...c5 5.e3 Nf6 6.a3 Bxc3+ 7.bxc3 O-O 8.Nf3 Qa5 9.Qc2 cxd4 looks good too, White lags in development as Bf4 doesn't help in castling kingside
But I can imagine 4...Nf6 works better repertoire-wise and there I found: 5.Qa4+ Nc6 6.e3 Ne4 7.Qc2 g5 8.Bg3 h5 9.f3 Nxg3 10.hxg3 Bd7.
Stockfish also gives the crazy suggestion of 7...e5, but I think White is better in the end: 8.dxe5 (8.Bxe5 Bf5 9.Bd3 Qg5 10.Nge2 Qxg2 11.O-O-O Bxc3 12. Nxc3 Bxd3 13.Qxd3 dxc4 14.Qxc4 Nxe5 15.dxe5 O-O) Bf5 9.Bd3 d4 10.Nf3 dxc3 11.O-O cxb2 12.Rad1 (12.Rab1 g5! 13.Nxg5 Nxg5 14.Bxf5 Ne6) Qe7 13.Bxe4 Bxe4 14.Qxe4 h6 (14...O-O 15.Qc2 Ba3 16.Ng5 g6 17.Ne4 Nxe5 18.c5) 15.Rd3 O-O 16.Rb3
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #50 - 11/24/18 at 18:49:34
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MartinC wrote on 11/24/16 at 16:18:26:
Intriguing to see the 1 d4 d5  2 c4 e6 3 Nc3 Bb4 move order apparently now felt respectable enough to fit into a QC opening book.


Digging around I think I found an obscure line that is not in Pert and looks good for White. What think ye, folks more clever than I?

3...Bb4 4 Bf4 Nf6 5 Qa4+ Nc6 6 e3 0-0 7 Nf3

Huh
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #49 - 08/10/18 at 03:54:05
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So when introducing the Vienna via the 4...Bb4 5 Bg5 dc4 move order, RP mentions that it avoids the QGA-esque lines after 4...dc4 5 e3. However, later in the book, after 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6 3 Nf3 Nf6 4 e3, he gives 4...a6 5 Nc3 and now 5...dc4, which, as far as I can tell, transposes into the 5 e3 Vienna. Not that this is a theoretical problem for Black, but, for example, the move 6 a4 is not mentioned.

Incidentally, after flipping through that part of the book earlier today, my game tonight went down exactly that path  Tongue I got an excellent position from the opening but made some bizarre decisions and ended up having to be careful to hold.
  
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