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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess (Read 5114 times)
LeeRoth
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #20 - 07/26/17 at 03:23:08
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In this line, it used to be thought that 4.e3 was slightly more accurate than 4.a3, as it avoided some of Black's ..Ne7 ideas.  Today, I don't think there is a preference.

For example, the line 4.a3 Bxc3 5.bxc3 c5! 6.cxd5 exd5 7.e3 Nc6 8.Bd3 Nge7 9.Ne2 c4 10.Bc2 Bf5 was thought to be equal/good for Black.  But, as Schandorff points out,  9.Rb1 may have kept an edge for White in Grachev-Bakre, Biel 2011.   
      
  
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CarriedbyGg
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #19 - 07/25/17 at 19:41:30
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http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1496869530

I tried to analyse this a bit, but back then I did not know that it is a transposition to the Marshall Gambit.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #18 - 07/25/17 at 18:00:32
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This may not be the best version of the Marshall Gambit for White, and Black may be fine in theory, but if a Black player stumbles into this position never having played a Marshall Gambit in his life, he's likely to be destroyed.  The statistics are very good for White, which is all the more troubling considering all of those games came from the Triangle move order where the Black players, presumably, had prepared for a Marshall. 

Anyhow in the end no book is perfectly complete and this isn't his main recommendation anyway, but it's something that people should be aware of.
  
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Fllg
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #17 - 07/25/17 at 17:37:24
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Great post, Eric, with lots of insights! Thumbs Up

ErictheRed wrote on 07/24/17 at 20:50:17:
Unfortunately, 6.e4! is a position from the Marshall Gambit Declined that has scored very well for White, usually arising by the move order 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c6 4. e4 Bb4 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3.


Thank you for pointing this out. I believe the simple reason why Pert overlooked the transposition to the Marshall is that 6.e4 never seems to have been played via this move order. That said in the original move order via the Slav 5.a3 is fairly rare and I somewhat doubt that the good results reflect the objective merits of the position. After the further 6...dxe4 7.Qg4 Nf6 8.Qxg7 Rg8 9.Qh6 this position arises:

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Black has plenty of decent looking options like 9...c5, 9...b6 or 9...Nbd7. The position resembles a French Winawer (1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.a3 Bxc3+ 5.bxc3 dxe4 6.Qg4 Nf6 7.Qxg7 Rg8 8.Qh6) where White has been allowed to put his c2-pawn on c4 and Black has played ...c6 in return. I´m not sure wether this is such an improvement for White but I admit it´s certainly necessary to know about this transposition if Black wants to play 5...c6 here.

Anyway I agree with you that this is a great book which makes me want to try out the Ragozin.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #16 - 07/24/17 at 20:50:17
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I finally got a copy of this book, and after spending a couple of days with it, I'm extremely happy; it's an excellent book! 

Pert does an admirable job of trying to make this a complete repertoire against 1.d4 d5 2.c4.  He gives 2...e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bb4+ serious coverage, which is a line that I've discussed (briefly) here before and always been curious about.  His analysis goes much further than I've seen before. 

He makes a great case for 3.Nc3 Bb4, which I've always been skeptical of.  Many players will use the Ragozin as a companion for the Nimzo-Indian Defense and so won't need this portion of the book, but I'm impressed with it.  I'm not quite as high on the Black cause as Pert seems to be, but it's full of ideas to pose new or different problems to White, which is all you can really ask for.  For instance, 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 Nf6 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bc c6!? allows Black to still pursue a "Light Squared Strategy," answering a later cxd5 with ...cxd5 and not transposing to potentially problematic Nimzo lines.  It's interesting and stimulating, though I'm not sure that Black is truly equalizing here. 

White can use the move order 4.a3! (my annotation) 4...Bxc3+ 5.bc Nf6 6.cxd5 exd5 7.e3, which avoids those ...cxd5 ideas mentioned above.  Pert does a good job with his coverage here, and I come away thinking that Black's position is not as bad or lifeless as I've always thought.  However, Pert mentions in a page-long note that Black could try 5...c6!? to get back into the 6...c6!? lines:

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*

Here he only analyzes 6.cxd5 cxd5 7.Bf4, saying that 6.e3 Nf6 transposes elsewhere in the book.  Unfortunately, 6.e4! is a position from the Marshall Gambit Declined that has scored very well for White, usually arising by the move order 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 c6 4. e4 Bb4 5. a3 Bxc3+ 6. bxc3.  It's playable for Black, but there's no coverage in Pert's book at all, and in my opinion, it's very dangerous to face over-the-board. 

Also in the main of the 4.a3! Bxc3+ 5.bc Nf6 6.cxd5 exd5 system, he follows (by transposition) Hillarp-Persson - Rozentalis, Gausdal 2006.



Pert ends his analysis after Black's 14th move saying that "the players reached a complex middlegame with mutual chances," and then "Black has stabilized his position and followed up by placing one knight on e7, supporting g6 and d5, and the other on d6."  He doesn't give the concluding moves of the game or analyze any alternatives, which I think is a real shame, since to my understanding this is a very critical test of Black's 3...Bb4 system!  I understand that no other games reached this position, but some guidance and independent analysis would really have helped.  To my mind, White has his two bishop, queen, and both rooks on their original squares, and despite it already being move 14, I wouldn't think that the opening is over. 

Pert does a great job in the anti-Catalan chapter from what I noticed; I haven't looked too closely there, though I play the Catalan!  A few lines look a little boringly equalish, but I suppose that's life.

I don't have a ton of experience in the Ragozin proper; I've tried playing it over the years, but always struggled on the Black side of the Westphalia or Manhattan variations.  I didn't like the lines where Black played a quick ...h6 and ...g5, either, so eventually I just gave up.  Here I think Pert's book shines, though!  He offers 5.cxd5 exd5 6.Bg5 6.h6 intending a quick ...g5 and ...Nf6-e4 as his main system, but as noted he also gives 6...Qd6!? as an alternative, spending about twelve pages on it.  My initial conclusion is that this is fully playable for Black and that it solves my personal problem of what to play in this line; hurrah!

Again as already noted, he gives the Vienna transposition after 5.Bg5 dxc4, and now both the main line 6.e4 c5 and 6...b5!? for Black to choose from.  I'm glad to finally see some serious Vienna analysis in print for us non-professionals, and while my knowledge of these lines is very limited, my impression is that he does a fantastic job guiding us through the move orders and critical lines, suggesting some very interesting novelties along the way. 

In all, I personally find this a fantastic book!  The highest praise that I can give it is that it's finally convinced me to play the Ragozin, solving my own personal reasons for avoiding the opening in the past.  The crux of the matter, for me, is whether 6...Qd6!? and the Vienna hold up and suit me, but my initial impression is very positive.  I've played the Noteboom/Triangle and Semi-Slav in the past, so I'm familiar with similar positions, and I see many of the less critical lines as improved forms of the Noteboom or Semi-Slav.  I'll have to learn the Vienna variation now, but, I've been looking for a new defense to 1.d4 for years, and this seems to be it. 

In all, I haven't been happier with an opening book purchase in recent years, except perhaps with Lokander's book on the Open Games.  I just hope that there's still some surprise value left down here at the under-2400 level in the US!
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #15 - 06/20/17 at 19:01:13
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mn wrote on 02/18/17 at 23:33:04:
What do you mean?


I mean that you seem to have answered your own question and that you're free to play whatever you want.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #14 - 06/20/17 at 13:55:00
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TN wrote on 02/25/17 at 07:43:27:
The 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 coverage comes that close to providing a full repertoire based on the Nimzo that it wouldn't have been so much more effort to also give systems against 4.Qc2/4.f3,


Not sure, if I understand you correctly, but I'll give a quote from Cornette anyway (excerpt from his new Ragozin book):
Quote:
And finally, the last part of this book is about what I call
the ‘Accelerated Ragozin’: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4. It’s a move-order I have used quite often myself and most of the time it reaches the ‘normal’ Ragozin, even if White has different options. Black’s main idea behind this move-order
can be to avoid the Nimzo-Indian with 4.Qc2 or the line with 4.e3 followed by 5.Nge2. If White tries to play these continuations in the accelerated Ragozin, Black has a strong ...dxc4 response.


So, it seems Black doesn't have to bother with 4.Qc2 in this move order. Not sure about 4.f3, but I will have a look at Pert's book.

Right now it seems the 1.d4 d5 move order is a bit more practical, but I will try the other one for the richness of Nimzo anyway.
  
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TN
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #13 - 02/25/17 at 07:43:27
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Well, against 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nf3, 4...d5 is the logical move for a Ragozin player of course. Really pedantic players might prefer 4...c5, 4...b6 or 4...0-0 on the basis that it is rated marginally better by the engine at a high depth, but it's not like White is forcing any advantage against the Ragozin, of course.

The 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 coverage comes that close to providing a full repertoire based on the Nimzo that it wouldn't have been so much more effort to also give systems against 4.Qc2/4.f3, but that wasn't really necessary when Roiz's Nimzo book was released at roughly the same time. Another positive feature of the Ragozin is that you can also play ...Nf6/...e6/...d5 against the Flank Openings, although be careful not to get move ordered into non-...Bb4 Catalan lines after 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 d5 4.Bg2 (for instance).
  

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mn
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #12 - 02/18/17 at 23:33:04
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ErictheRed wrote on 02/17/17 at 19:14:48:
mn wrote on 02/09/17 at 01:39:14:
If you play the Ragozin, why not transpose into one after 4 Nf3. I don't see 4...c5 as being that much better than 4...d5 that it's worth learning an extra branch that you don't strictly need.


Okay, then don't transpose to the Nimzo.


What do you mean?
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #11 - 02/17/17 at 19:14:48
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mn wrote on 02/09/17 at 01:39:14:
If you play the Ragozin, why not transpose into one after 4 Nf3. I don't see 4...c5 as being that much better than 4...d5 that it's worth learning an extra branch that you don't strictly need.


Okay, then don't transpose to the Nimzo.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #10 - 02/09/17 at 01:39:14
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If you play the Ragozin, why not transpose into one after 4 Nf3. I don't see 4...c5 as being that much better than 4...d5 that it's worth learning an extra branch that you don't strictly need.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #9 - 02/08/17 at 08:10:15
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It's easy and best not to transpose to the Ragozin if you are already in the nimzo. I think 4...c5 is better than 4...d5 even if there is nothing wrong with 4...d5.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #8 - 02/07/17 at 09:37:14
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Do most Nimzo/Ragozin players play 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.Nf3 d5? This transposes to a Ragozin and cuts down on the amount of theory to learn, but I was wondering if most Nimzo players play something different against 4.Nf3 in the Nimzo.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #7 - 11/27/16 at 20:54:52
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The Vienna? Life and death and a utterly massive number of forced draws I think.

The preview mentions that he's covering the 6..b5!? option there, which is plain wild. Did think it got a bit buried by the odd super GM game but presume some repairs since.
  
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Re: Pert on the Ragozin - new book from QualityChess
Reply #6 - 11/25/16 at 22:56:48
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I have Alejandro Ramírez dVd,  and the most remarkable difference is in the 5.Bg5 line, going here to the Vienna. Anybody here DO that?  Has the Viena the massive amount of theory I think it has? Or maybe is not so dramatic as Black to be prepared in the main lines?

Thx
  
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