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Poll Question: What move order do you prefer to use to reach the Semi-Slav?



« Created by: WSS on: 01/23/17 at 13:39:35 »
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav (Read 1187 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #10 - 05/19/17 at 15:32:09
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Then Spree, you need to figure out what to play after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Bg5!?, which I'm surprised is not better known.
  
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Spree K
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #9 - 05/19/17 at 03:35:39
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/17/17 at 22:35:01:
One question to ask is whether you'd rather face the Catalan or Exchange Slav.  You may think that 2...c6 is not so bad if it means not having to deal with the Catalan!  That's one of the biggest questions to answer, in my mind.

Another is what to play against 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c6 4.Qc2, when if 4...Nf6 White can play 5.Bg5 or 5.g3.  So the Triangle may or may not avoid the QGD and Catalan, depending on how you plan on handling those moves.


Dunno if you were responding to me exactly. But yes, whether to allow the Catalan or the Exchange is a very important question. Of course, objectively the Exchange Slav probably poses far less challenge than the Catalan.

But for me, I've played the White side of the Catalan for years so I tend to feel very comfortable as both colors in the position types that arise. I also value getting an interesting, dynamic position (after all, that's the whole reason to play the semi-slav rather than more solid QGD/Nimzo, etc.) which is substantially more difficult in the Exchange Slav.

As for the triangle with 3. Nf3 c6, it was always my impression that White had a variety of promising lines,
including the ones you mention.(Whether more promising than the pure Catalan after 3...Nf6 4. g3, I don't know). Hence 3...Nf6 is my preference.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #8 - 05/18/17 at 14:59:51
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All the more reason for the pure Slav move order to reach a Semi Slav then, although 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nbd2 is not such a terrible line for White, either.
Black can avoid Catalan lines by allowing an Exchange Slav and giving up on the Triangle, so my point was that if someone wants a Semi Slav they should decide which they'd rather face, a Catalan or Exchange. When I realized that, suddenly the prospect of allowing an Exchange Slav didn't seem so bad.
  
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #7 - 05/18/17 at 10:42:26
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ErictheRed wrote on 05/17/17 at 22:35:01:
Another is what to play against 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c6 4.Qc2, when if 4...Nf6 White can play 5.Bg5 or 5.g3.

Sherbakov in his excellent book on the Triangle admits that White may prove some advantage with 4.Nbd2 and 5.g3. Black has the choice between a slightly modified Catalan and a mainline of the Stonewall. Black can't avoid this choice by allowing the Slav Exchange.
  

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ErictheRed
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #6 - 05/17/17 at 22:35:01
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One question to ask is whether you'd rather face the Catalan or Exchange Slav.  You may think that 2...c6 is not so bad if it means not having to deal with the Catalan!  That's one of the biggest questions to answer, in my mind.

Another is what to play against 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c6 4.Qc2, when if 4...Nf6 White can play 5.Bg5 or 5.g3.  So the Triangle may or may not avoid the QGD and Catalan, depending on how you plan on handling those moves.
  
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Spree K
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #5 - 05/17/17 at 19:14:58
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Personally, I use the QGD move order 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6.

But I reply to 3. Nc3 with the triangle (as the QGD exchange is much more dangerous than most of the triangle lines IMO). Against 3. Nf3 I play 3...Nf6 4. Nc3 e6. Of course, this gives White the chance to play Catalan, but otherwise his other 4th moves pose little threat. The 3. Nf3 triangle is much less promising (for example 4. Qc2 is a good line for White).

I'm willing to play the interesting lines of the Triangle and Catalan rather than allow the exchange slav or some of the slow slav setups with Nf3+e3+b3.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #4 - 03/06/17 at 18:54:20
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We had an old thread about 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c6?! that gives me a headache thinking about, I suggest reading through it.
  
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #3 - 01/24/17 at 21:39:09
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WSS wrote on 01/24/17 at 17:47:36:
Vass wrote on 01/24/17 at 07:35:17:
WSS wrote on 01/23/17 at 13:39:35:
I'm interested in understanding what move order players use to reach the Semi-Slav as Black.  Each has it's pluses and minuses.

1.  Slav: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 etc.  Allows the Exchange Slav and Slow Slav for White but avoids Catalan.
2.  Triangle: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 . Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Marshall Gambit and requires Stonewall or "weak" Meran (without White committing Nc3) versus 3.Nf3
3.  QGD: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan and QGD transpositions.
4.  Indian: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan.  Plays Nimzo versus 3.Nc3 and requires added opening theory knowledge.
5.  Others?  Not sure if there are any other viable paths but would be interested to hear.

What about 1. d4 Nf6 2.c4 c6 ?!  Wink


Interesting Vass.  I am aware of that possibility but haven't worked out the move orders.  What are the pros and cons?

Other than some possible transpositions to a fianchetto Grunfeld, it appears to mainly be an alternative move order to get to a Slav set-up (and then possibly to a Semi-Slav if White complies.) . White can still employ his typical Slow Slav 3.Nf3, 4.e3 set-up.


I guess that in that case there is the question of how to meet the d-pawn specials. In many cases I like to play an early ...c5, which is what Avrukh often recommends. 2...c6 kinda makes that less optimal :-D
  
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #2 - 01/24/17 at 17:47:36
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Vass wrote on 01/24/17 at 07:35:17:
WSS wrote on 01/23/17 at 13:39:35:
I'm interested in understanding what move order players use to reach the Semi-Slav as Black.  Each has it's pluses and minuses.

1.  Slav: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 etc.  Allows the Exchange Slav and Slow Slav for White but avoids Catalan.
2.  Triangle: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 . Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Marshall Gambit and requires Stonewall or "weak" Meran (without White committing Nc3) versus 3.Nf3
3.  QGD: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan and QGD transpositions.
4.  Indian: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan.  Plays Nimzo versus 3.Nc3 and requires added opening theory knowledge.
5.  Others?  Not sure if there are any other viable paths but would be interested to hear.

What about 1. d4 Nf6 2.c4 c6 ?!  Wink


Interesting Vass.  I am aware of that possibility but haven't worked out the move orders.  What are the pros and cons?

Other than some possible transpositions to a fianchetto Grunfeld, it appears to mainly be an alternative move order to get to a Slav set-up (and then possibly to a Semi-Slav if White complies.) . White can still employ his typical Slow Slav 3.Nf3, 4.e3 set-up.
  
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Vass
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Re: Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
Reply #1 - 01/24/17 at 07:35:17
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WSS wrote on 01/23/17 at 13:39:35:
I'm interested in understanding what move order players use to reach the Semi-Slav as Black.  Each has it's pluses and minuses.

1.  Slav: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 etc.  Allows the Exchange Slav and Slow Slav for White but avoids Catalan.
2.  Triangle: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 . Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Marshall Gambit and requires Stonewall or "weak" Meran (without White committing Nc3) versus 3.Nf3
3.  QGD: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan and QGD transpositions.
4.  Indian: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan.  Plays Nimzo versus 3.Nc3 and requires added opening theory knowledge.
5.  Others?  Not sure if there are any other viable paths but would be interested to hear.

What about 1. d4 Nf6 2.c4 c6 ?!  Wink
  
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WSS
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Preferred Move Order to reach Semi-Slav
01/23/17 at 13:39:35
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I'm interested in understanding what move order players use to reach the Semi-Slav as Black.  Each has it's pluses and minuses.

1.  Slav: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 etc.  Allows the Exchange Slav and Slow Slav for White but avoids Catalan.
2.  Triangle: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 . Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Marshall Gambit and requires Stonewall or "weak" Meran (without White committing Nc3) versus 3.Nf3
3.  QGD: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan and QGD transpositions.
4.  Indian: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 d5.  Avoids Exchange Slav but allows Catalan.  Plays Nimzo versus 3.Nc3 and requires added opening theory knowledge.
5.  Others?  Not sure if there are any other viable paths but would be interested to hear.
  
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