Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Are there any drawbacks to this move order? (Read 1018 times)
ReneDescartes
God Member
*****
Offline


Qu'est-ce donc que je
suis? Une chose qui pense.

Posts: 767
Joined: 05/18/10
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #11 - 04/25/17 at 16:28:26
Post Tools
At move five, what an engine thinks is completely irrelevant unless there's some tactic. Computer evaluations are idiotic at this stage.The question is whether you are comfortable with the positions. After 4.f3 Bb4, 5.e3 is also an issue. It's very, very different from a Leningrad.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
befuddled
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/06/10
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #10 - 04/02/17 at 23:37:59
Post Tools
According to the computer 1.d4 e6 2. c4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 Bb4 5. Qb3 c5! is equal.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
befuddled
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/06/10
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #9 - 04/02/17 at 23:15:32
Post Tools
Here is another annoying line. 1.d4 e6 2. c4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3
4...d5 is playable here but not the kind of position you want. 4...Bb4 was met by 5.Qb3 in a few games I played recently.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LeeRoth
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 1258
Joined: 10/22/05
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #8 - 04/01/17 at 14:47:45
Post Tools
befuddled wrote on 03/23/17 at 20:47:25:
I found a drawback; if play goes 1. d4 e6 2. c4 f5 3. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3 d6 4. Bg2 g6, White can play 5. e4!


I'm not sure if this is anything to worry about, but if you do not like it, what about playing 4..g6 iso 4..d6.  After 4..g6 5.Bg2 Bg7 play normally continues 6.Nf3 0-0 7.0-0 d6 with a transposition to the Christmas Tree.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
befuddled
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/06/10
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #7 - 03/23/17 at 22:12:10
Post Tools
So it looks like an early Bb4 in this line is the best after all.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
befuddled
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/06/10
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #6 - 03/23/17 at 20:47:25
Post Tools
I found a drawback; if play goes 1. d4 e6 2. c4 f5 3. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3 d6 4. Bg2 g6, White can play 5. e4! and if instead 4...d5 White has forced a stonewall without committing his knight to f3 and can follow up with 5.Nh3 maybe bringing the knight to f4 later.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
LeeRoth
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing.com!

Posts: 1258
Joined: 10/22/05
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #5 - 03/14/17 at 15:40:35
Post Tools
I don't see any drawbacks to entering the Christmas Tree variation through 1..e6.  And, IIRC, Moskalenko mentioned that this was doable. 

Of course, you have to deal with the usual White deviations after 1..e6, but a lot of Dutch players are perfectly fine with that. 

The more important question may be whether the Christmas Tree variation itself is any good.  Jakovenko beat Si. Williams pretty convincingly in this line at Novi Sad last year. 
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mn
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 53
Joined: 09/22/16
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #4 - 03/14/17 at 00:35:06
Post Tools
Doesn't [1 d4 e6 2 Nc3 d5 3 Bf4] 3...Nf6 just transpose to the main line of the regular d4 Nc3 Bf4 Jobava System?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
emary
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 100
Joined: 07/26/08
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #3 - 03/13/17 at 23:16:20
Post Tools
I am not sure but 1.d4 e6 2.Nc3 could be an issue.
The idea is 3.e4 if allowed, but against 2...d5 3.Bf4.
Against 2...f5 3.e4 or 3.Bf4
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
befuddled
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/06/10
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #2 - 03/13/17 at 14:27:25
Post Tools
My plan is actually to play 4...b6 after Nc3 Nf3 to transpose into the English defence and only Bb4 after Qc2 cause I don't like Bb4 Qb3 lines. In the first line not sure but I guess 5...d5 restricting e4 and maybe go into a stonewall with g6 already played.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bonsai
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 616
Joined: 03/13/04
Gender: Male
Re: Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
Reply #1 - 03/13/17 at 08:42:58
Post Tools
I do wonder whether something like 1.d4 e6 2.g3 f5 3.Bg2 Nf6 4.Nf3 g6 5.Nc3 might be an issue - in a number of move orders the idea of a quick Nc3 to get a quick e4 can be tricky, and with the combination of e6 and g6, I did speculate whether throwing in Bg5 in one of these variations might be an option for once.

In general, there are also h4 options, e.g. 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 g6 5.h4 could be tricky, or do you plan to play 3...Bb4 or 4...Bb4 when white plays an early Nc3?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
befuddled
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 32
Joined: 12/06/10
Are there any drawbacks to this move order?
03/13/17 at 00:14:47
Post Tools
I want to reach the Christmas tree Leningrad via 1.d4 e6 eg

1. d4 e6 2. c4 f5 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. g3 g6 5. Bg2 Bg7 6. O-O O-O 7. Nc3 d6 

Are there any drawbacks to this move order (apart from the obvious transposition to the French)?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo