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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis (Read 23616 times)
mn
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #50 - 11/25/17 at 03:29:37
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3 Nc3 Nf6 4 Bg5 is a problem for such a repertoire, yeah. Through that move order you could always try something like the cambridge springs, though
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #49 - 11/25/17 at 02:19:48
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Thanks for the detailed reply, emary!

emary wrote on 11/25/17 at 01:53:08:
Ragozin via 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 ?

Pert: Playing the Ragozin
gives a complete repertoire against 1.d4 2.(3.)c4 based on the Ragozin and avoiding the Nimzo-Indian.
A crucial Line is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4! 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bf4 Ne7! 6.Bd3 Bf5 which is analyzed in the book.
[...]

Maybe I didn't explain this well. Let me try again: I like Ntirlis' lines against the Exchange variation (I think), but I don't want to play the QGD main lines with 4.Nf3 Be7; I believe (rightly or wrongly) they are a bit too tame for my taste. So I want to combine 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 a la Ntirlis with something else, like the Ragozin 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bb4 (or the Vienna 4...dxc4, or 4...a6, which I don't know a name for).

But it seems like the relatively rare 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 is a problem for this kind of combination. I was wondering if anyone has a solution to that.

So it seems like a lot of Ntirlis' d-pawn specials stuff is useful even with a "Nimzo-Indian" 1...Nf6/2...e6 move order (probably the most common way to use the Ragozin or the Vienna in a repertoire). Interesting that he doesn't recommend 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bg5 Ne4, which has been considered the big problem with this move order for White. Maybe what he gives for Black is just as good.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #48 - 11/25/17 at 01:53:08
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Hello Stigma!

Ragozin via 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 ?

Pert: Playing the Ragozin
gives a complete repertoire against 1.d4 2.(3.)c4 based on the Ragozin and avoiding the Nimzo-Indian.
A crucial Line is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4! 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bf4 Ne7! 6.Bd3 Bf5 which is analyzed in the book.

After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bb4 5.cxd5 exd5 Pert thinks a setup with Bd3 and Ne2 is problematic for Black, but he doesn't give concrete lines. According to Pert Qb3 ideas might also be annoying if you want to use this move-order.
If you play a 1...Nf6 move-order you have the same problem obviously.
1.d4 e6 makes little sense if you have to follow up with 2.c4 d5 to avoid this problem.


Ntirlis: Playing 1.d4 d5
Are his recommendations against the Queens-Pawn openings compatible with the  1...Nf6 2...e6 move-order?   

Fianchetto:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.g3 e6 4.Bg2 b5

Colle-Koltanowsky:
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Bd3 c5 5.c3 Be7 6.Nd2 0-0
Colle-Zukertort:
... 5.b3 Be7 6.Bb2 0-0 7.0-0 b6
(e3 Queens-Gambit
... 4.c4 Be7) 

London System: 
1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Nf3 Bd6 (4.Nd2 Bd6)

These lines seem very compatible with the 1...Nf6 2...e6 move-order.

Ntirlis recommendations against the Torre have to be adapted if you want to use the 1...Nf6 2...e6 move-order:

A.
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bg5 Nd7! 4.Nd2 h6! 5.Bh4 e6 6.e4
(6.e3 -> 3.c3 move-order)
(...4.Nc3 -> Veresov ...4.e3 -> 3.c3-move-order)

B.
... 3.c3 e6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.Nd2 Nd7! 6.e3 c5 7.Bd3 h6 8.Bh4 b6!

Ntirlis doesn't cover the Tromp, his move-order is always 1...d5.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #47 - 11/24/17 at 15:18:35
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A quick question for those who have the book: Do the lines against d-pawn specials like the London, Torre and Colle require a 1...d5 move order, or do they work with 1...Nf6/2...e6 or 1...e6 as well?

I'm not that interested in the QGD main lines right now, but am thinking of getting this anyway for the Catalan and "specials" coverage.

Another thing I've wondered: Can you play the Ragozin QGD (or the Vienna or the recently semi-fashionable 4...a6!? for that matter) but go with Ntirlis for the rest of the repertoire (especially the QGD Exchange lines), or will that run into move order problems? I'm thinking of 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5, for instance.
  

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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #46 - 11/24/17 at 14:33:29
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Traditionally an N suffix on a move means "novelty": a move that has not been played before in published competitive games, so a new suggestion of the author.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #45 - 11/24/17 at 13:05:58
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I have the book. Looks fantastic. There are quite a few moves that have a big letter ‘N’ at the end of a move. Are these typo’s? Can’t figure out the meaning of it.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #44 - 11/22/17 at 08:25:27
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doefmat wrote on 11/21/17 at 14:34:17:
Looks like an interesting book. As a 1500 club player I try to have a classical repertoire as possible. I switched to the Slav because many players said white has all the easy plans in the QGD exchange and it's very hard for black.

Would this repertoire be more ' easy' to understand than ' Play the Slav'  for example?



Here there are covered the anti-lines. "Play the Slav" don't cover Tromp, Torre, London and close friends. And at that level, I imagine you face as Black very few 1.d4 2.c4 guys.

Exchange variation of the QGD (I use a lot as White) is the line you are going to face the more if you play 1...d5 and 2...e6. And the explanations in the book to play confidently as Black are superb. Easy to follow and good theoretically. The positions are complex (not sterile equality) but Black is OK there.

In some way, I like the positional, solid, classical way of play as Black that QGD tends to give to me. Slav positions are sometimes more irrational, more complex, more imbalanced (good to play for a win). But I would like to know how good are the options to win as Black in the Exchange variation of the Slav, for example.

Salut.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #43 - 11/21/17 at 20:05:14
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doefmat wrote on 11/21/17 at 14:34:17:
a 1500 club player I try to have a classical repertoire as possible. I switched to the Slav because many players said white has all the easy plans in the QGD exchange and it's very hard for black.

Would this repertoire be more ' easy' to understand than ' Play the Slav'  for example?


I personally think the plans are somewhat easier to understand in the Slav than the QGD, but at a club player level there are other things that are more important than an "objective" comparison, because there will be deviations from theory pretty early on in every game.

Also, depending on what system you play against d-pawn specials, one or the other opening might suit you better.

With that said, the book is very good and worth buying anyhow Smiley
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #42 - 11/21/17 at 14:34:17
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Looks like an interesting book. As a 1500 club player I try to have a classical repertoire as possible. I switched to the Slav because many players said white has all the easy plans in the QGD exchange and it's very hard for black.

Would this repertoire be more ' easy' to understand than ' Play the Slav'  for example?
« Last Edit: 11/21/17 at 16:49:31 by doefmat »  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #41 - 10/15/17 at 21:28:58
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I'm reminded of such people as Max Illingworth (in an update from a year ago) and (I believe) LeeRoth who have expressed the heretical(?) view that 3...Be7 and 3...Nf6 are equally good.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #40 - 10/15/17 at 20:48:37
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It’s interesting that 3...Nf6 has taken over. 3...Be7 used to be considered better because it avoids the exchange variation with Bg5. I think this started during the first Kasparov-Karpov match...?

What I’m curious about is why did 3...Nf6 take over? Is it because of the line that’s recommended in this book or is it because of 3...Nxd5, transposing into the Semi-Tarrasch?
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #39 - 10/14/17 at 08:54:41
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Thank you for pointing this out.

The chapters about the Exchange are indeed big, but to me they form the heart of the book.

I don´t mind playing 3...Nf6. I was just wondering what the pros and cons are regarding the repertoire presented in your book. But this is of course not essential for your work.

After studying your book I´m looking forward playing the QGD in my next tournament games.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #38 - 10/13/17 at 21:33:45
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Actually, i wanted to talk about 3...Be7 in the intro to the "Exchange Variation" chapter, but for those who have the book, this chapter became very big, so i thought to cut the relevant section.

I don't think that it is easy for Black to equalise after 3...Be7 to be honest (this is one of the reasons that in the highest level they play ...Nf6 much more often). Also, the ...Nf6 move order is much more flexible.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #37 - 10/13/17 at 13:54:22
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Fllg wrote on 10/12/17 at 16:03:25:
I have to admit that I don´t know much about the QGD from either side and so I very much appreciate the lucid explanations in the book.

One thing I haven´t found explained is regarding the pros and cons of the moveorder 3...Nf6 vs. 3...Be7. Looking at the suggested Repertoire the only downside of 3...Be7 seems to occur after 4.cxd5 exd6 5.Bf4 when 5...c6 6.e3 Bf5 allows 7.g4 or 7.Nge2.

On the other hand 3...Be7 seems to avoid some stuff in he Exchange Variation like the lines with 0-0-0 , doesn´t it?

Perhaps someone can enlighten me here if there are other disadvantages of playing 3...Be7 ?


Black is fine after 3. ... Nf6 as well as after 3. ... Be7. The author does a good job explaining how to play the resulting positions. I suppose he could have done the same with 3. ... Be7, but then again, this is a repertoire book and not a comprehensive survey. I can also imagine that the team at QC liked the idea of tackling the cornerstone of many white repertoire books of this decade, which is the classical exchange variation with 3. ... Nf6. It seems to fit in better with the idea of a classical repertoire. Objectively there is nothing wrong with any of both variations.
  
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Re: Playing 1.d4 d5 A Classical Repertoire, Ntirlis
Reply #36 - 10/12/17 at 16:03:25
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I have to admit that I don´t know much about the QGD from either side and so I very much appreciate the lucid explanations in the book.

One thing I haven´t found explained is regarding the pros and cons of the moveorder 3...Nf6 vs. 3...Be7. Looking at the suggested Repertoire the only downside of 3...Be7 seems to occur after 4.cxd5 exd6 5.Bf4 when 5...c6 6.e3 Bf5 allows 7.g4 or 7.Nge2.

On the other hand 3...Be7 seems to avoid some stuff in he Exchange Variation like the lines with 0-0-0 , doesn´t it?

Perhaps someone can enlighten me here if there are other disadvantages of playing 3...Be7 ?
  
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