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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith (Read 23981 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #27 - 08/09/17 at 04:20:36
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an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 08/09/17 at 03:14:39:
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It would probably be better to stick to the early e3 in lines with ...e6 or ...d5 and play more actively in the pure West Indian systems.
Since he offers 1.e3 as a possible move order, it's a little late to be recommending something more active against say 1...g6.


Understood.  That was my point when I said that he may be taking the e3 concept a little too far, though readers don't need to.  I'm always happy with a repertoire book if I can use at least 10-20% of the material in it, personally.  Who plays everything that one author in one book says to play?  I'd buy the book if I liked his Meran coverage (which I haven't seen), but I'm skeptical of 6.Bd2, so... I'll wait until I can check it out on a bookshelf somewhere.
  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #26 - 08/09/17 at 03:14:39
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It would probably be better to stick to the early e3 in lines with ...e6 or ...d5 and play more actively in the pure West Indian systems.
Since he offers 1.e3 as a possible move order, it's a little late to be recommending something more active against say 1...g6.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #25 - 08/09/17 at 02:51:19
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It sounds to me like Axel is taking the e3 concept a little too far, after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7, 4.e3?! is a really tame move.  Playable and perhaps "post-theoretical" like he says, but tame.  It would probably be better to stick to the early e3 in lines with ...e6 or ...d5 and play more actively in the pure West Indian systems.  Naturally there are plenty of good choices; I'm partial to the Smyslov-Petrosian system when I want to play something offbeat with little theory: 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.c4 Bg7 4.Nf3 0-0 5.Bg5 and 6.e3.  At least the bishop gets outside of the pawn chain, and the pawn on e3 still denies Black use of the d4-square, making him look for alternative sources of counterplay.

Interestingly I see only one game in my database where Smith has played the position after 4.e3 himself, though he may have played this system more times by transposition (and I may not have access to many of his games).  However he did seem to get a very nice game out of the opening; he ended up in a Czech Benoni type setup where Black had a clear extra tempo, but had used that tempo to fianchetto his king's bishop, which is supposed to be worse than developing it to e7 in that sort of "Full Benoni" pawn structure:

  
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bragesjo
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #24 - 08/08/17 at 21:25:09
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kylemeister wrote on 08/08/17 at 20:12:02:
In the TOC I noticed "Poor Man's Benoni."  I'm guessing that is this kind of thing which Smith has played:  1. e3 g6 2. Nf3 c5 3. d4 Bg7 4. c4 Nf6 5. d5 d6 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Be2 e6 8. O-O ed 9. cd Re8 10. Nd2 Na6 11.e4.  So a Classical Modern Benoni but with White sacrificing a tempo.



The chapters starts via after 1 d4 Nf6 2 Nf3 g6 3 c4 Bg7 4 e3 c5 5 d5 0-0 6 Nc3 e6 7 Be2 exd5 8 cxd5 d6 9 0-0

Smith writes that one can argue that Benoni is such a bad opening that one would not mind facing it a tempo down. Nakumura has played this line and a very quick e4. However quck look indicates that Smiths idea is to not play e4 at once since is more difficult for black to attack anything if there is no pawn at e4.


  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #23 - 08/08/17 at 20:12:02
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In the TOC I noticed "Poor Man's Benoni."  I'm guessing that is this kind of thing which Smith has played:  1. e3 g6 2. Nf3 c5 3. d4 Bg7 4. c4 Nf6 5. d5 d6 6. Nc3 O-O 7. Be2 e6 8. O-O ed 9. cd Re8 10. Nd2 Na6 11.e4.  So a Classical Modern Benoni but with White sacrificing a tempo.
  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #22 - 08/08/17 at 17:16:57
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bragesjo wrote on 08/08/17 at 16:03:58:
I have not got time to check lines properly until the weekend however some things are a bit odd.


The approach used by Kramnik when apparently playing the Colle is to follow up with c4 almost immediately. That's always likely to transpose into something else in the QGD, QGD, Panov etc.

Against anything that isn't the Kings Indian or perhaps the Grunfeld, an early e3 is very likely to transpose to a variation known from a different move order.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #21 - 08/08/17 at 16:03:58
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I have not got time to check lines properly until the weekend however some things are a bit odd.

While there are a huge biografy some books are realy missing. Some of Avrukhs book are mentioned but not hes d-pawns special book! Cox has a book mentioned but not hes d-pawns special book!

And a line called Bogo Indian looks like some sort of Queens Gambit declined where black transposes to Bogo Indian Be7 line with d5 already played by black and white has in turn played the suboptimal e3 with a Bishop at d2.

A line I would call Colle with c4 does the book call Queens Indian. It might be a transposing but I don know since I dont play QID but it might a some sort of e3 system. Cox book and Smiths book first appears not to meet at all but it reaches each other after different move orders and follows each other untill move 16.

An other funny thing is that repertour can transpose to Panov attack. I played a Panov tournanamnet recently at ICCF and almost everyone of my games with both sides ended up in a drawish positions and I dont mean computer evaluations. However there might be improvments over the Panov book I used in my white games.
  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #20 - 08/07/17 at 05:52:16
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testing

This thread "disappeared" -- I was only able to find it by using the search function.
  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #19 - 08/06/17 at 18:20:43
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RdC wrote on 08/06/17 at 08:49:58:
It's rather more a reversed version of  Kings Indian Attack lines against the French. Those that might go 1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. Re1 b5 9. e5

I don't think he considers the madder version of that system, the reversed version of where Black plays .. b6 and .. Bb7, Qc7 and O-O-O with the idea of advancing the h or g pawns for a Kingside attack.

Before the main lines of the Kings Indian were developed in the 1950s, the idea of an early e3 would be used. The attacking methods for White seen in the Kings Indian Attack were first seen in the Kings Indian for Black. In their day, they caused the e3 approach to be abandoned. Will Axel Smith's advocacy of it cause a revival?


Well, in olden days e4 stuff against the KID was considered just better for White.  That's the picture in e.g. Fine's Practical Chess Openings from 1948, in which I see no mention of this e3 setup.

From what I was aware of, in the reversed version of that KIA vs. French main line, Black may prefer not to go for ...e4.  I recalled an old bit from the first edition of ECO (1978 -- of note, the relevant section was written by Uhlmann):  1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 g6 3. c4 Bg7 4. Nc3 O-O 5. e3 d6 6. Be2 Nbd7 7. O-O e5 8. b4 Re8 9. a4 ed 10. ed c5 11. Rb1 cb 12. Rxb4 Nb8 13. h3 Nc6 (Spiridonov-Hort, Brno 1975) 14. Rb2 d5 equal according to Hort.  I also recalled Kozomara-R. Byrne (a striking game by Byrne), in which I would have thought that ...e4 was encouraged by White's Bb2.
« Last Edit: 08/06/17 at 19:43:34 by kylemeister »  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #18 - 08/06/17 at 08:49:58
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kylemeister wrote on 07/17/17 at 18:49:42:
I would presume it is that kind of thing.  Incidentally I recall the term "King's Indian Attack Reversed" from an annotation from the 1970s.



It's rather more a reversed version of  Kings Indian Attack lines against the French. Those that might go 1. e4 e6 2. d3 d5 3. Nd2 c5 4. Ngf3 Nf6 5. g3 Nc6 6. Bg2 Be7 7. O-O O-O 8. Re1 b5 9. e5

I don't think he considers the madder version of that system, the reversed version of where Black plays .. b6 and .. Bb7, Qc7 and O-O-O with the idea of advancing the h or g pawns for a Kingside attack.

Before the main lines of the Kings Indian were developed in the 1950s, the idea of an early e3 would be used. The attacking methods for White seen in the Kings Indian Attack were first seen in the Kings Indian for Black. In their day, they caused the e3 approach to be abandoned. Will Axel Smith's advocacy of it cause a revival?
  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #17 - 08/06/17 at 07:50:35
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I'm pretty excited to see what he has in store for the QGD. That will be the biggest test for the setup since e3 before bringing out the bishop isn't usually good in those structures. You typically want to bring it to f4 or g5 and if not, you play a Catalan (often with b3, Bb2 later). It's weird that these days even with main line openings, I have more difficulties with the QGD than the Slav complex.

I'm also eager to see his handling of the Symmetrical English. I rarely get anything when I face it. It's like a brick wall and I've tried a lot of lines.
  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #16 - 08/05/17 at 17:08:48
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I wanted to make it clear that despite what I wrote, I like the book.  I just wanted to point out what I believe to be an omission that might require another source if one chooses the Anti-Queen's Gambit option.
  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #15 - 08/05/17 at 16:14:29
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Strange that after so many years of playing the Meran and Anti-Meran as White, and some as Black, that I have no knowledge of 6.Bd2 at all.
« Last Edit: 08/05/17 at 19:22:51 by ErictheRed »  
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #14 - 08/05/17 at 11:23:46
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I ordered the book yesterday. It will arrive early the next week.
  
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bragesjo
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Re: "e3 Poison" by Axel Smith
Reply #13 - 08/05/17 at 11:20:28
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About club player aspect I was not that clear after all. I did  not meant ultimate mainlines or following them for 20 moves!

I meant  not even entering a  major system where the mainlines starts to spread out.
Since computer era the number of clubplayer games  that entered the startposition of a mainline like for example Najdorf (where white has many mainlines to  choose from) has decreased. I can add that older veteran player are more likely to enter a start position in either  1 d4 or 1 e4 openings. So personally  I am more surprised to reach a startposition of mainline or be in a book position after more than 7 moves when I play black.

I can give  an other example. Vs a 1900 clubplayer I meet  closed Sicilian.  I played 2 .. e6.
He knew how to develop he's pieces but did not know the exact move order so he made a mistake so I got  in a favorable d5 break and  I was slightly better according to computer but the game ended up in a draw. An other example a other club player  played 2  a3 vs sicilian. I played g6 mainline. Opponent starts to think for a very very long time before settling the odd looking 3 c3 and after the game asked how theory goes...
  
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