Latest Updates:
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Titled players who play unpopular openings (Read 1660 times)
ReneDescartes
God Member
*****
Offline


Qu'est-ce donc que je
suis? Une chose qui pense.

Posts: 883
Joined: 05/18/10
Gender: Male
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #12 - 11/23/17 at 01:36:58
Post Tools
What are you doing? Surely that belongs in a private message--at best. If you are wrong, it's bad. If you are right, it's worse. You are suggesting in public, to everyone in a position to know, that kylemeister is one of just a few people. If he wanted to tell the gentle internet public who he is, he would do so in his profile. Mods?
« Last Edit: 11/23/17 at 03:20:42 by ReneDescartes »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
FischerFan72
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1
Joined: 11/22/17
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #11 - 11/22/17 at 14:17:01
Post Tools
kylemeister wrote on 08/19/17 at 07:30:02:
Warning:  randomness
It occurred to me that Miezis was born in the year of surely the most famous game with 5...Nc6 (Fischer-Petrosian*).

*My awareness of that game goes back to a clubmate of mine from that decade, Roane Carey (nice name, no?), giving it to me (copied onto notebook paper) for my edification.



Hmmm, kylemeister, that sounds to me like a recollection from the Birmingham Chess Club, around 1973 or 1974. Would I be right?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 3396
Joined: 11/07/08
Gender: Male
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #10 - 08/22/17 at 20:40:27
Post Tools
Monocle wrote on 08/18/17 at 13:51:35:
Can anyone name any players of IM level or above, who play offbeat or unpopular openings as their MAIN defence with black?

I don't mean people like Jobava or Morozevich who sometimes play offbeat openings but play mainline stuff just as often.  I mean guys who play one specific offbeat defence almost any opportunity they get.

I know there's an IM who plays 1... b6 against everything (can't remember his name), and I think GM Danilo Milanovic mostly plays the Benko, and Simon Williams still plays the Classical Dutch. 

I expect these sort of players will mostly be around the 2400-2500 level rather than 2600+.  I'm just interested to know what kind of openings can survive at this level in the hands of a specialist, even when opponents are likely to be prepared for it.

The kind of openings I'm thinking of are stuff like 1... b6, Benko, Czech Benoni, Chigorin, Albin, Old Indian, Philidor, Schliemann, Nimzowitsch defence, etc.  Not outright refuted stuff, but the sort of openings that I usually hear people recommend against if you want to make it to 2200 level or above.


As the initial question was already analysed, I wanted to add the point that most of the top players actually play sidelines/shortcuts a fair bit as part of their opening approach, so it's not necessarily a bad thing to have sidelines in your repertoire. Indeed, about a decade ago Kamsky was the only top player regularly playing the London as White, and some players criticised him for not playing more critical openings. And look where we are now!

At the amateur level, the argument's often made that if you mostly play the one sideline as Black, you have the advantage that you have a lot more experience in the positions than the opponent, which outweighs playing something not quite as objectively good as a hardcore main line. The other side of the coin is that the 'main line player' has a better overall understanding of chess from experiencing richer and more diverse positions!

You might also decide to play sidelines within a main line, e.g. you play the Nimzo but with 4...b6 against most things. Below 2500 you can get away with quite a lot.
  

All our dreams come true if we have the courage to pursue them.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
tipau
Full Member
***
Offline


I Like ChessPublishing!

Posts: 147
Location: London, England
Joined: 01/25/08
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #9 - 08/20/17 at 12:19:11
Post Tools
The most well known example in UK chess is IM Michael Basman, who generally plays 1.e4 g5 and 1.d4 h6 followed by ...g5. Naturally he plays the Grob as White too.
  

FIDE: ~2100
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mangler
Full Member
***
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 157
Location: Orlando
Joined: 10/30/06
Gender: Male
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #8 - 08/19/17 at 19:43:52
Post Tools
Igor Miladinovic has played the tromp and 1.d4 d5 2.Bg5 most of his career (well over 100 games in each line). He also has played the Chigorin vs 1.d4. I think he has also played 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Bf5 as Black too. As black vs 1.e4, not so exotic, just Sicilian Taimanov, but he does play an unusual move order. 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 cd4 4.Nd4 Qc7. This is the move order in the recent book the Taimanov Bible. He also has some games with the 4... Nf6 5. Nxf6+ ef6 line of the Caro Kann.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
Senior Member
****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 336
Location: Rotterdam, Holland
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #7 - 08/19/17 at 13:50:31
Post Tools
Miezis also plays 1.c4 e6 2.e4 a lot. In my database: +154 =117 -49 against average 100 Elo lower.
« Last Edit: 08/19/17 at 18:28:18 by TD »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Monocle
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 44
Joined: 12/03/16
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #6 - 08/19/17 at 12:48:31
Post Tools
sim wrote on 08/19/17 at 01:41:55:
One that I think of is Miezis with the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 a6 5.Bd3 Nc6. He's in the 2400s now, but he did play it when he was closer to 2600 as well.


I forgot about Miezis.  He played tons of games in the Snake Benoni as well, but I'm not sure if he uses that against strong players anymore.

Branko Filipovic is the IM I was thinking of who plays 1... b6 all the time.  He seems to have done quite well with it.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
Full Member
***
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 239
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #5 - 08/19/17 at 09:35:31
Post Tools
Lev Alburt for sure
Alexander Reprintsev possibly
Also look at GMs who have written books on the openings of interest.

The opening has to be of sufficient strategical complexity. Then even if your opponent springs a novelty, you still have a chance to outplay them. A corollary is that the opening needs to have playable deviations - a sideline with sidelines! If there is only one narrow path to a playable position for your side, eventually your opponents will learn it, and your winning chances will dry up.

I think Alburt's repertoire was genius, and remarkable for its consistency, although he did switch away from the Veresov at some point.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4283
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #4 - 08/19/17 at 07:30:02
Post Tools
sim wrote on 08/19/17 at 01:41:55:
The examples of openings you name are defined by the first two or three moves. I'm sure that if you expand your search to openings (or variants of openings) that are defined a little deeper in the move tree, examples are easy to find. One that I think of is Miezis with the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 a6 5.Bd3 Nc6. He's in the 2400s now, but he did play it when he was closer to 2600 as well.


Warning:  randomness
It occurred to me that Miezis was born in the year of surely the most famous game with 5...Nc6 (Fischer-Petrosian*). 

*My awareness of that game goes back to a clubmate of mine from that decade, Roane Carey (nice name, no?), giving it to me (copied onto notebook paper) for my edification.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
sim
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 30
Joined: 05/26/09
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #3 - 08/19/17 at 01:41:55
Post Tools
The examples of openings you name are defined by the first two or three moves. I'm sure that if you expand your search to openings (or variants of openings) that are defined a little deeper in the move tree, examples are easy to find. One that I think of is Miezis with the line 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 a6 5.Bd3 Nc6. He's in the 2400s now, but he did play it when he was closer to 2600 as well.
I also remember reading in a book about the Alekhine (maybe starting out: the Alekhine) that there are some players who specialize in some of the riskier lines but are unbeaten or almost unbeaten in those lines.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Online


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1430
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #2 - 08/18/17 at 16:39:01
Post Tools
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RoleyPoley
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 459
Location: London
Joined: 12/29/13
Gender: Male
Re: Titled players who play unpopular openings
Reply #1 - 08/18/17 at 16:31:18
Post Tools
Monocle wrote on 08/18/17 at 13:51:35:
Can anyone name any players of IM level or above, who play offbeat or unpopular openings as their MAIN defence with black?

I don't mean people like Jobava or Morozevich who sometimes play offbeat openings but play mainline stuff just as often.  I mean guys who play one specific offbeat defence almost any opportunity they get.

I know there's an IM who plays 1... b6 against everything (can't remember his name), and I think GM Danilo Milanovic mostly plays the Benko, and Simon Williams still plays the Classical Dutch. 

I expect these sort of players will mostly be around the 2400-2500 level rather than 2600+.  I'm just interested to know what kind of openings can survive at this level in the hands of a specialist, even when opponents are likely to be prepared for it.

The kind of openings I'm thinking of are stuff like 1... b6, Benko, Czech Benoni, Chigorin, Albin, Old Indian, Philidor, Schliemann, Nimzowitsch defence, etc.  Not outright refuted stuff, but the sort of openings that I usually hear people recommend against if you want to make it to 2200 level or above.


There was a similar thread on here about specialists. Some of who may meet what you are looking for. Generally speaking most if not all IMs and above would  play a wider repertoire especially if they are playing the most dubious lines as it is too easy to prepare for them and a lot of the more dubious lines probably dont score that well in practice (even the more reliable ones such as the benko is under a big cloud now)

David Smerdon frequently plays the gambit lines of the Scandinavian. Obviously not all the time but i think has over 50 games with it and has played it in important games not just dead rubbers. He also named a Philipino IM (Darwin Laylo ?) i think as another exponent of the line but when i looked up his games results were not good.

Radjabov has played a decent number of games in the Schliemann but i wouldnt call it a main defence (He plays a lot of  other main lines).

  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Monocle
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 44
Joined: 12/03/16
Titled players who play unpopular openings
08/18/17 at 13:51:35
Post Tools

Can anyone name any players of IM level or above, who play offbeat or unpopular openings as their MAIN defence with black?

I don't mean people like Jobava or Morozevich who sometimes play offbeat openings but play mainline stuff just as often.  I mean guys who play one specific offbeat defence almost any opportunity they get.

I know there's an IM who plays 1... b6 against everything (can't remember his name), and I think GM Danilo Milanovic mostly plays the Benko, and Simon Williams still plays the Classical Dutch. 

I expect these sort of players will mostly be around the 2400-2500 level rather than 2600+.  I'm just interested to know what kind of openings can survive at this level in the hands of a specialist, even when opponents are likely to be prepared for it.

The kind of openings I'm thinking of are stuff like 1... b6, Benko, Czech Benoni, Chigorin, Albin, Old Indian, Philidor, Schliemann, Nimzowitsch defence, etc.  Not outright refuted stuff, but the sort of openings that I usually hear people recommend against if you want to make it to 2200 level or above.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo