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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Correspondence Chess in a new age (Read 2043 times)
Jupp53
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #42 - 10/12/17 at 16:03:56
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Sharing and discussing is the key to detect your errors.
  

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brabo
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #41 - 10/12/17 at 08:32:16
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ErictheRed wrote on 10/11/17 at 20:43:10:
dfan wrote on 10/11/17 at 19:34:28:
brabo wrote on 10/11/17 at 07:35:16:
In fact I was thinking to write a new article for my blog about people not willing to answer technical questions about chess. Recently I played against an IM and he refused to answer my question what he had prepared against the line I normally play in the opening we had on the board.

That seems entirely reasonable to me.


Seriously, why would he answer that question?  Unless he was a personal friend or something.

We are living in a society which is becoming more and more individualistic. We see this in the post-mortems but also here on the forum. Players share less information than before.

However I still believe sharing is much more productive than just hiding things. I share a lot but I am also getting back a lot of useful information by grateful people. In the end we become both better and stronger from such voluntary cooperation.

If my opponent would've just shared what he prepared then I would've gladly shared all my investigations in that particular opening. He knows very well that even if we ever meet each other again (maybe never) that I will never permit him to let me hit with that preparation.
  
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brabo
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #40 - 10/12/17 at 08:08:44
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Seeley wrote on 10/11/17 at 20:54:27:
brabo wrote on 10/11/17 at 07:35:16:
In fact I was thinking to write a new article for my blog about people not willing to answer technical questions about chess. Recently I played against an IM and he refused to answer my question what he had prepared against the line I normally play in the opening we had on the board. I played a different line which I had in store as back-up against a too heavy preparation.

I wouldn't consider that a 'technical question about chess'. What you asked your opponent to do was to reveal part of his opening repertoire, or at the very least to share with you an idea that he'd worked on before your game that he might wish to use in the future, be it against you or against someone else. Why should he tell you that? I most certainly wouldn't share that information with an opponent and, to be honest, I'd consider it a bit cheeky if someone asked me to.

Well it concerned a line of which I am almost sure he will never get on the board again. I am talking about the opening which I discussed in my article http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2016/10/avrukh-part-2.html see the idea of 8... Nbd7. I am the only player in the databases, having played it more than once in practice. It just sounds ridiculous for me that an amateur doesn't want to share his preparation in such scenario. Besides I have a very strong suspicion of what he prepared so I justed wanted to know if I guessed it correctly. Anyway the post-mortem was immediately stopped after this.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #39 - 10/11/17 at 22:08:23
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Focus, people!   Angry
  

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an ordinary chessplayer
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #38 - 10/11/17 at 21:32:32
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@Seeley - I'm with you on this one. For the most part, preparation that can be used in the future is just not discussed. Occasionally one might reference a specific game that had been looked at, but not the actual novelty! In the hypothetical case that my opponent is known to blog about openings, I would be even more reluctant to reveal the unknown. I think it was Larsen who wrote: "Masters are willing to reveal their improvements for a price - one point!"
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #37 - 10/11/17 at 20:54:27
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brabo wrote on 10/11/17 at 07:35:16:
In fact I was thinking to write a new article for my blog about people not willing to answer technical questions about chess. Recently I played against an IM and he refused to answer my question what he had prepared against the line I normally play in the opening we had on the board. I played a different line which I had in store as back-up against a too heavy preparation.

I wouldn't consider that a 'technical question about chess'. What you asked your opponent to do was to reveal part of his opening repertoire, or at the very least to share with you an idea that he'd worked on before your game that he might wish to use in the future, be it against you or against someone else. Why should he tell you that? I most certainly wouldn't share that information with an opponent and, to be honest, I'd consider it a bit cheeky if someone asked me to.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #36 - 10/11/17 at 20:43:10
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dfan wrote on 10/11/17 at 19:34:28:
brabo wrote on 10/11/17 at 07:35:16:
In fact I was thinking to write a new article for my blog about people not willing to answer technical questions about chess. Recently I played against an IM and he refused to answer my question what he had prepared against the line I normally play in the opening we had on the board.

That seems entirely reasonable to me.


Seriously, why would he answer that question?  Unless he was a personal friend or something.
  
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dfan
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #35 - 10/11/17 at 19:34:28
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brabo wrote on 10/11/17 at 07:35:16:
In fact I was thinking to write a new article for my blog about people not willing to answer technical questions about chess. Recently I played against an IM and he refused to answer my question what he had prepared against the line I normally play in the opening we had on the board.

That seems entirely reasonable to me.
  
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brabo
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #34 - 10/11/17 at 07:35:16
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trw wrote on 10/10/17 at 19:13:10:
brabo wrote on 10/10/17 at 07:27:59:
trw wrote on 10/10/17 at 05:07:06:
They kept trying to attribute the novelty to him but he refused saying he found it in a correspondence database.

I doubt very much that anybody asked directly Kramnik where the novelty came from. Besides you can't expect that these top-players will reveal their sources. There is always secrecy around which players, computer-networks, databases... they have access to. You can't blame them to behave like that as at that level it is all about collecting information and surprising the opponent.



I don't know if the video interview is still stored anywhere but yes they did directly ask him. If I have time later, I will try to find it.

That would be great. In fact I was thinking to write a new article for my blog about people not willing to answer technical questions about chess. Recently I played against an IM and he refused to answer my question what he had prepared against the line I normally play in the opening we had on the board. I played a different line which I had in store as back-up against a too heavy preparation.
  
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #33 - 10/11/17 at 02:41:49
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Shall we use Facebook to form a private group?
  

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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #32 - 10/10/17 at 22:33:22
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ErictheRed wrote on 09/04/17 at 19:26:47:
I'm sort of curious: if a player had a state-of-the-art computer (all the best hardware) and simply played correspondence by letting it run as deeply as he possibly could, then making the first choice of the engine every time; about what rating would that correspondence player have these days, do you think?


We'd probably have to better define what "state-of-the-art" hardware means these days, but 2200-2300 Elo seems like a good guess. I would not expect more, maybe less, perhaps.

I've played and beaten players who, by all appearances, almost totally relied on their overnight analysis, using average hardware [something like a quad], and they were rated less than 2000 ICCF. This suggests that average hardware alone can yield around 1900 Elo at best.
  

Dubious, therefore playable Undecided
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #31 - 10/10/17 at 19:13:10
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brabo wrote on 10/10/17 at 07:27:59:
trw wrote on 10/10/17 at 05:07:06:
They kept trying to attribute the novelty to him but he refused saying he found it in a correspondence database.

I doubt very much that anybody asked directly Kramnik where the novelty came from. Besides you can't expect that these top-players will reveal their sources. There is always secrecy around which players, computer-networks, databases... they have access to. You can't blame them to behave like that as at that level it is all about collecting information and surprising the opponent.



I don't know if the video interview is still stored anywhere but yes they did directly ask him. If I have time later, I will try to find it.
  
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Jupp53
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #30 - 10/10/17 at 17:05:14
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Having an old version of Tim Hardings CD I can clearly say it was better than ChessBase.
  

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brabo
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #29 - 10/10/17 at 07:27:59
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trw wrote on 10/10/17 at 05:07:06:
They kept trying to attribute the novelty to him but he refused saying he found it in a correspondence database.

I doubt very much that anybody asked directly Kramnik where the novelty came from. Besides you can't expect that these top-players will reveal their sources. There is always secrecy around which players, computer-networks, databases... they have access to. You can't blame them to behave like that as at that level it is all about collecting information and surprising the opponent.
  
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trw
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Re: Correspondence Chess in a new age
Reply #28 - 10/10/17 at 05:07:06
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HgMan wrote on 10/08/17 at 14:53:55:
Giving this a bump. I remain interested. I’ve spent the last few weeks revising my opening repertoire to prepare for a series of tournaments this winter. I’m starting to like the new plan. As a few people mentioned above, I believe that the secret to cc success comes from finding lines that engines are still prone to misevaluate, and doing the kind of research to identify how to exploit the often minor misreads. As a result, I’ve been looking at slightly offbeat deviations from mainstream theory (in order to get my opponent out of book early) and create imbalances in closed or semi-open positions.

But it’s not just about engine power. My past experience says that I won more games where the theory was sound but not over-developed. I won a lot of games with the Catalan, for example, about ten years ago, before the crush of new books made it difficult to get players into positions I knew better. In some sense, good cc involves finding opening fashions before the GMs do.  Grin


Good point, I won in a certain opening then the 2800s started playing it and someone wrote an amazing article on it. I never won a game in it again. Sad
Also, Kramnik used my line in the Grunfeld in the London Candidates. I never actually won a game in that line but the novelty was mine. I played 4 interesting draws which was apparently enough for Kramnik (!) to take it. They kept trying to attribute the novelty to him but he refused saying he found it in a correspondence database.

But tbh, this stuff takes time and effort. Hence why I thought it would be good to get a group effort going.

brabo wrote on 10/09/17 at 12:08:06:
HgMan wrote on 10/08/17 at 14:53:55:
In some sense, good cc involves finding opening fashions before the GMs do.  Grin

Well just read once the last line of the very recent advertising of the Chessbase Corr Database 2018: "today's correspondence games indicate how the opening theory of tomorrow will look like". This was published at 5th of October see http://en.chessbase.com/post/a-treasure-trove-of-ideas-the-corr-database-2018

I also want to take up the chance to digress a bit about the subject.
The new chessbase correspondence database is for sale at the astonishing price of 188,9 euro. However in 1 of the comments below I found that there is an alternative http://www.chessmail.com/UCX-files/UltracorrX.html which costs only 55 euros and is even bigger. I am getting for free the most recent iccf-games by a friend but that database of Tim Harding seems to be interesting. Anybody already tried it?


I would be interested to know. Usually these chessbase databases are terrible but with Tim Harding I would be very interested to know the quality.
  
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