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Normal Topic Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection? (Read 3243 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #9 - 01/20/18 at 20:33:39
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Stigma wrote on 01/20/18 at 18:29:21:
Btw. in the game against Ljubojevic (1972) in the Mammooth book Velimirovic actually passed on a chance to play his trademark Sozin, going for a 6.Bg5 Najdorf instead. He still managed to sacrifice of course, eventually playing a rook down (for two pawns) for several moves. Though in the end Ljubojevic gave it all back with interest to avoid getting mated.


I was reminded of a game Velimirovic-Al Kazzaz 1974, in which after 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Be7 8. Qf3 Qc7 9. O-O-O Nbd7 10. Bd3 b5 11. Rhe1 Bb7 12. Qg3 (instead of the 12. Nd5 vs. Ljubojevic) O-O-O (12...b4 came to be seen as better) he played 13. Bxb5 (instead of 13. Bxf6 Nxf6 14. Qxg7 as Spassky had played against Fischer), which came to be seen as the refutation of Black's play.  (Yes, I remember some pretty ancient Najdorf theory ...)
  
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Stigma
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #8 - 01/20/18 at 18:29:21
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Btw. in the game against Ljubojevic (1972) in the Mammooth book Velimirovic actually passed on a chance to play his trademark Sozin, going for a 6.Bg5 Najdorf instead. He still managed to sacrifice of course, eventually playing a rook down (for two pawns) for several moves. Though in the end Ljubojevic gave it all back with interest to avoid getting mated.

an ordinary chessplayer wrote on 01/20/18 at 15:42:47:
@Stigma - I purposely did not have the engine on while playing through these games. It would ruin the sense of adventure. As for why [insert attacking player name here]'s opponent did not play differently ...

Everybody has a "sense of danger". But it frequently fails under the following game scenario:
  1. I have to watch out for this guy.
  2. Oh no! He's sac'ing! Can this be sound?
  3. I don't think that worked out for him. If I'm careful I should be winning.
  4. I can easily defend his remaining threats. I'm definitely winning.
  5. This is ridiculous! Anything wins. I'll just play this nice solid move and he will be resigning soon.
  6. Aarrgghh!!

Note that it's #5, and to a lesser extent #4, that gets a player in trouble. It is really hard to maintain concentration for a whole chess game. It is so easy to relax in a clearly won position.


I didn't use an engine to look at this either (still haven't), just my own brain.

I would expect a player in the Yugoslav championship to find this neat Be3-c5 tactic, even on defence. That's why I thought of time trouble. But yeah, there are many possible reasons. Defence is hard...
« Last Edit: 01/20/18 at 19:34:36 by Stigma »  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #7 - 01/20/18 at 16:00:06
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@RoleyPoley - With ChessBase Light you can convert to .pgn.
File | Selection to Text File | Format = PGN.
There are a couple of options under the Text and PGN tabs.

Also, there is more than one Android app that can do this conversion.
  
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #6 - 01/20/18 at 15:42:47
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@Stigma - I purposely did not have the engine on while playing through these games. It would ruin the sense of adventure. As for why [insert attacking player name here]'s opponent did not play differently ...

Everybody has a "sense of danger". But it frequently fails under the following game scenario:
  1. I have to watch out for this guy.
  2. Oh no! He's sac'ing! Can this be sound?
  3. I don't think that worked out for him. If I'm careful I should be winning.
  4. I can easily defend his remaining threats. I'm definitely winning.
  5. This is ridiculous! Anything wins. I'll just play this nice solid move and he will be resigning soon.
  6. Aarrgghh!!

Note that it's #5, and to a lesser extent #4, that gets a player in trouble. It is really hard to maintain concentration for a whole chess game. It is so easy to relax in a clearly won position.
  
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #5 - 01/20/18 at 09:52:49
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Thanks @an ordinary chessplayer & @ Sigma. Not sure why i've never thought about looking at his games before - maybe i thought he was too sharp for me (saying that as a devout Tal fan lolz) (although his games would have been much harder to find when i was playing regularly at Uni all those years ago).

I used to have a chessbase database but its quite old now, and i cant find the original cd.

I briefly considered taking up the sozin 25 years ago, but was too lazy and played the Morra instead. I have a copy of Lane's book somewhere, that should have some of his games, i'll check this afternoon.
  

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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #4 - 01/20/18 at 04:27:53
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  • Harding, Botterill, and Kottnauer (1970) The Sicilian Sozin has six entries for complete games by Velimirovic. In these games Velimirovic made a piece sac three times, in one of those he followed up with a rook sac. On page 139 they call him the "Yugoslav Tal". As an aside, my copy of this book came from the library of Mark Morss.
  • Levy (1974) Sacrifices in the Sicilian has two entries for Velimirovic. Levy thinks Velimirovic's sacrifice was unsound in one of them.
  • Geller et al (1976) The Najdorf Variation has three entries for complete games by Velimirovic. All three involve a piece sac. Geller, who wrote the sections quoting these games, concludes that one was incorrect, one was not "sufficiently correct", and one was brilliant.
  • Golubev (2001) The Sicilian Sozin sadly lacks a player index.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #3 - 01/20/18 at 02:47:54
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I wonder why Black didn't try 21...Bg6, and if 22.fxg7 just leaving the pawn there to block White's attack for the moment, with 22...Rfe8 probably. Maybe White can break through anyway, but if he doesn't Black may well be clearly better with his connected passed pawns.

Time trouble, perhaps?

I agree a collection of Velimirovic's games could be fun. I found the game Velimirovic-Ljubojevic, Yugoslav Ch., Umag 1972 in Burgess, Nunn and Emms' Mammooth Book of the World's Greatest Chess Games. He may also be well represented in historical Informators, with the Yugoslav connection and all, though I haven't checked. Finally I'd expect Golubev's book The Sicilian Sozin to have some Velimirovic game references - the sharpest line there is called the Velimirovic Attack for a reason.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #2 - 01/20/18 at 01:51:49
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So far these games are highly entertaining. This guy tried real hard to win.

game 14 Velimirovic - Bradvarevic, Yugoslavia ch 1962
(after 20.Qe2-g4)

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
 
20...Qc5+ 21.Rf2 Rfe8

* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * *

22.Be3 Qf8 23.Bc5 h5 24.Qg5 1-0

Edited:
I looked at the Sources tab and every game says ChessBase. So you might already have all these games. The last game is 2011.05.22.
  
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Re: Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
Reply #1 - 01/20/18 at 00:11:34
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I thought there would be something in Russian, but in books I only found single games by him, not a collection of his games. I did turn up a download. Not sure if this is annotated, I am at work and cannot open .cbh files. But it's worth a shot.
http://www.sdchess.ru/chess_bases/v/1/velimirovitch.7z (Велимирович.cbh)
From this page:
http://www.sdchess.ru/chess_bases/bases_chess_v.html
If I can figure out how to search in Serbian, I will look some more. I am also interested for myself.

Edited:
1805 games, of which about 114 have some kind of annotations. I saw English and German so far, but did not look at all of them yet. To get the file to open in ChessBase, I had to rename Велимирович.* to velimirovitch.*.
« Last Edit: 01/20/18 at 01:14:05 by an ordinary chessplayer »  
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Dragoljub Velimirovic - annotated game collection?
01/19/18 at 16:32:48
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Hi all,

Just wondered if anyone knew of any collection that had a number of his games annotated?

I've never really looked at his stuff before but just discovered that he played the dragon and modern benoni throughout his career.

I couldnt see any books on amazon, but there might a be a dvd or his games may feature in a tournament collection or something?

Thanks,

RP.
  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

Victor Bologan.
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