I my opinion Bb4+ transposing to Bogo Indian makes sense even for QID players since white is commited to an early g3.
Whites best chance to get anything in normal Bogo Indian is to block the check with either Nd2 or Nc3.
However with g3 played before Nf3 both moves has drawbacks. Nd2 for example gives black the option of playing c5.

Maybe send a message to Tony, or create a thread about the bug over here: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?board=discussion_brd.

P.S.: What is going on with "QID" here? It seems when I quote this acronym from someone it's turned into some weird code!

I added spaces in what I just quoted to get around it.

My reservations about entering the Catalán as Black are that grabbing pawn and holding it is not very comfortable in practical games, as my opinion. I play the Catalán as White and I feel that often one slip by Black if s/he uses general principles instead of memorising their preparation can cause Black not to have a destroyed position, but rather a depressing game positionally speaking.

ErictheRed wrote on 01/27/18 at 18:25:19:


I have the Pert book on the Ragozin. 5...Ad6 looks interesting, sometimes going into some Stonewall type structure. A Stonewall is not typical of QID besides specific lines where White plays e3, but it is of some lines of the Nimzo 4. Dc2 d5 (or 4. Dc2 0-0 with future ...d5) lines.

I guess question is if 3...c5 is too sharp with 3...d5 too static for a Nimzo/QID player. I remember seeing various opinions about 3. g3 c5 not being particularly challenging line of Benoni, but Black cannot sit and play slow and positionally here like in many Nimzo/QID positions.

Although if both White and Black are positional players and the game goes into 3. g3 c5, both players would be somewhat disadvantaged so it evens out..

My reservations about entering the Catalán as Black are that grabbing pawn and holding it is not very comfortable in practical games, as my opinion. I play the Catalán as White and I feel that often one slip by Black if s/he uses general principles instead of memorising their preparation can cause Black not to have a destroyed position, but rather a depressing game positionally speaking.

I guess question is if 3...c5 is too sharp with 3...d5 too static for a Nimzo/QID player. I remember seeing various opinions about 3. g3 c5 not being particularly challenging line of Benoni, but Black cannot sit and play slow and positionally here like in many Nimzo/QID positions.

Although if both White and Black are positional players and the game goes into 3. g3 c5, both players would be somewhat disadvantaged so it evens out..

Yes, Black has to know his stuff in these sharp lines, but so does White. The good news for Black are that he has good chances in this case. How many amateurs playing the Catalan are ready to play this risky line with White?

It´s not without reason that Avrukh recommends the quieter lines with 6.0-0 Nc6 7.e3 for White in his GM Repertoire.

ErictheRed wrote on 01/27/18 at 18:25:19:


It´s noticable that, despite the move 5...a6, Ntirlis does not recommend to try to hold the pawn on c4 in every line. Instead Black usually gives it back and plays for counterplay in the centre with ...e6-e5.

Usually I´m not depending so much on statistics but White has scored only slightly above 51% in this line in my database which is clearly below average.

Also, to me Black´s position seems easy to play in most of the lines recommended in Ntirlis´ book.

Fllg wrote on 01/27/18 at 08:21:14:


I have not had a close look at the analysis by Ntirlis there, though I should soon as I've played the Catalan forever.  However, I feel that this is one of those lines where no matter what the theoretical verdict or engine says or what correspondence players play, White can always get a lot of central control and compensation that can make things uncomfortable for Black in a practical, over the board game.  If you like that sort of thing as Black, then go for it!  There are many openings in the Closed Games where Black plays for the win by taking on c4 and challenging White to prove compensation.  But it's not for everyone. 

I'd look into the 3...d5 4.Bg2 Bb4+ Bd6 or 5...Be7 lines, for one.  That seems pretty consistent with many lines of the QID. 

If you want to challenge White's move order directly, probably 3...c5 is best.  This has been something of a hole in my own personal repertoire forever, in the sense that I play the Catalan against ...d5 but other lines against the Modern Benoni.  So I'm always forced to choose between the fianchetto variation of the Benoni or 4.Nf3 cd 5.Nxd4, when Black has a variety of very QID-like responses.  Also depending on how one plays the QID as Black, there are a lot of Benoni-like pawn structures that can arise, so learning one additional line (the fianchetto Benoni) is not much more. 

Naturally anything is playable, you just need to choose a variation that suits you.  Personally as a Catalan player in over-the-board games, I'm always very happy to get a line where Black takes on c4 and then tries hold the pawn.  I don't know how other Catalan players feel, but in practice there's a lot to be said for not giving your opponent what he wants. 

It might be easier to recommend something if we knew the sort of positions you like in the Nimzo and QID.