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Normal Topic Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni? (Read 1410 times)
LeeRoth
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Re: Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni?
Reply #6 - 03/13/18 at 19:25:12
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I would say that there is "distrust" towards the Benoni.  And why not?  The opening is anti-positional.  Black gives White more space and a mobile pawn center in exchange for a bag of tricks.  In any opening like that, there's a feeling that, once White figures out how to deal with the tactics, his positional trumps will tell.

Larsen said that when he threw the Modern Benoni in the basket marked "incorrect," Gligoric would agree.  When Kasparov crushed Nunn with the Flick Knife attack at the 1982 Olympiad, it just about put the Benoni out of business.  Nunn himself said as much in his subsequent Benoni book.

It seems like every couple of years there's a new White system that causes Black problems.  The Flick Knife, the Modern Main Line, the Bf4/e3 line, the Half-Samisch, the Bf4 system, the Fianchetto, the Four Pawns...  The fact that there are so many lines capable of causing Black problems, probably says something about the fundamental soundness of the opening.

I've played the Benoni through thick and thin, although I paired it with the Nimzo for a while to avoid the Flick Knife and then the Modern Main Line.  Today, I play it straight up.  I'm not entirely convinced Black equalizes, but, hey, when things go well for Black in the Benoni, its a whole lot of fun. Wink

    
  
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Stigma
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Re: Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni?
Reply #5 - 03/12/18 at 16:08:28
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RoleyPoley wrote on 03/12/18 at 13:37:23:
[...]

Although the Flick-knife in particular put it under a cloud, for a while (back in the 90's?) it was seen as an opening that would often lead to drawish rook and pawn endings - so perhaps there are easier ways to achieve this now, without so much risk.

Also, perhaps in the past it's been played frequently by transposition (i.e it was a recommended line in the 4 pawns vs KID)- and we may no longer see as many KIDs (more Grunfelds?) and when we do, there are other lines that have become more frequently used (like the ...Na6 variations?)



Many (most?) GMs play the Modern Benoni only after White has committed to Nf3 or g3, and the Flick-knife has to be the main reason for that. The Nimzo-Indian as the natural companian has an excellent reputation and can be played quite sharply (though still probably less sharply than the MB proper) if they want a complex game.

Transposing to the Benoni is still the top choice against the KID 4 Pawns' Attack as far as I know, though 6...e5!? has also been topical for some years. Many now feel White has an edge against 6...Na6.
Transposing to the Benoni is also a very main line approach to the Sämisch, Smyslov and Seirawan variations of the KID, as well as some of the h3 lines. And also the Kramer/Hungarian variation with Nge2-g3, though there I believe Black has better options - this is quite a dangerous line against the Benoni even though it's not that popular.
  

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RoleyPoley
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Re: Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni?
Reply #4 - 03/12/18 at 13:37:23
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BigTy wrote on 03/09/18 at 02:39:53:
I've seen so many analysis videos, live streams, etc. where strong players (usually IM and up) refer to the Modern Benoni as a 'terrible opening for black.'  Angry

However, no one ever bothers to give a concrete line proving its terribleness as an opening. They just say things like 'Black has a weak pawn on d6, White has more space and a potential e4-e5 break' etc., yet don't seem to comment on the trumps of Black's position.

I've played both sides of the Modern Benoni a lot, and I have yet to see White get a clear advantage by force. Sure, it is inherently risky, but so are the KID and Dutch, and they don't seem to receive the same amount of hate.

Is it just fun to bash this opening the way it used to be (and maybe still is to some extent) fun to bash the Dragon?

Cheers!

Which streams/video's where you referring to?

I get where your coming from, although i see it more on other forums by people probably not of master strength....

Perhaps it's just fashion that has led to it dropping out of favour, and so people not knowing better think something is inherantly wrong with it?

@JEH is probably on the right track with the lack of space being a factor but I cant believe people are willing to play the Pirc at top levels and not the Modern Benoni.

Although the Flick-knife in particular put it under a cloud, for a while (back in the 90's?) it was seen as an opening that would often lead to drawish rook and pawn endings - so perhaps there are easier ways to achieve this now, without so much risk.

Also, perhaps in the past it's been played frequently by transposition (i.e it was a recommended line in the 4 pawns vs KID)- and we may no longer see as many KIDs (more Grunfelds?) and when we do, there are other lines that have become more frequently used (like the ...Na6 variations?)


  

"As Mikhail Tal would say ' Let's have a bit of hooliganism! '"

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BigTy
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Re: Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni?
Reply #3 - 03/12/18 at 01:39:59
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Yeah, 'hatred' was the wrong word. I guess I wanted to say something like 'why do so many players make fun of the Modern Benoni,' Or 'Why everyone be hatin' on the Modern Benoni?' with the second option being even more at risk of being misunderstood.

I too thought Black was OK, though maybe slightly worse, in the Flick-Knife attack. My results against it have not been worse than against most other lines, and I see the Modern Mainline (h3/Bd3/e4/Nf3 set-up) much more often.

I'd rather be White, but I could say that about most mainline openings...
  
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JEH
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Re: Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni?
Reply #2 - 03/09/18 at 06:52:55
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I sense that titled players seem to view openings that concede space with suspicion rather than hatred.

They only seemed to get played at the top level super rarely as a surprise or for rapid/blitz

I think for most Modern Benoni chess punters, they're caught in a trap, they can't walk out, because they love it too much, Bibby

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Bibs
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Re: Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni?
Reply #1 - 03/09/18 at 04:07:43
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I have never seen any of that. 'Hatred' is an excessive word, surely. 'Raised eyebrows' perhaps. 'Looks askance', perchance.

Though the Flick-knife (e4, f4, Bb5+) has admittedly been feared for many a year.
Look through some Gashimov (RIP) games, and the QC book to see that the Benoni is reasonable enough.

I shouldn't pay attention to over-opinionated IM type people on Twitch/YouTube wherever. There are a lot of opinions around. Probably just trying to make things sound Oh So Very Exciting. Trying to get punters, or whatever happens on Twitch and such. See also: Ashley.
  
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BigTy
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Why so much hatred towards the Modern Benoni?
03/09/18 at 02:39:53
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I've seen so many analysis videos, live streams, etc. where strong players (usually IM and up) refer to the Modern Benoni as a 'terrible opening for black.'  Angry

However, no one ever bothers to give a concrete line proving its terribleness as an opening. They just say things like 'Black has a weak pawn on d6, White has more space and a potential e4-e5 break' etc., yet don't seem to comment on the trumps of Black's position.

I've played both sides of the Modern Benoni a lot, and I have yet to see White get a clear advantage by force. Sure, it is inherently risky, but so are the KID and Dutch, and they don't seem to receive the same amount of hate.

Is it just fun to bash this opening the way it used to be (and maybe still is to some extent) fun to bash the Dragon?

Cheers!
  
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