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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Line against grob for black? (Read 2270 times)
Jupp53
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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #9 - 08/20/18 at 07:22:48
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These are the lines in my data base. I think it is copied from the Quality Chess book by V.Mikhalevsky. The problem is imo you have to remember something. If I haven't played it several times against a club member I forget it in two days, except the idea of giving the exchange and then the natural attack against the weak squares on the kingside follows. In 15/15 minute games or longer this is the right choice. In five minute games I prefer 1.g4 e5, keep calm, develop, counterattack.

As any first move is playable Grob's Attack lives from irrational moves and the desire to refute this. If you accept a slightly better play in move 15 or later it becomes a "boring" play for two results from the black side and a time consuming search for trouble and fight against the loss for white.

If you want "fun" you might try to get into this:
  

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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #8 - 08/19/18 at 18:46:59
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MNb wrote on 08/19/18 at 09:09:26:
Sure, White will have to play some unnatural moves ...
Unnatural moves are the essence of the Grob.
  
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MNb
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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #7 - 08/19/18 at 09:09:26
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Hadron wrote on 08/18/18 at 22:59:35:
Really? You can't see what Black has accomplished? Excellent pressure along the a8-h1 diagonal, a spike pawn on d3 and active play.

I don't see that either. Sure, White will have to play some unnatural moves and hence it's a fine gamble in rapid and blitz, but objectively Black is worse. What's more, when I compare this with 3...dxc4 4.Bxb7 Nd7 5.Bxa8 Qxa8 6.f3 e5 I see that Black develops faster (dxc4 and e5 iso d5-d4-d3) and that the pawn on c4 is as thorny as on d3.
  

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Hadron
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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #6 - 08/18/18 at 22:59:35
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ErictheRed wrote on 06/15/18 at 15:54:49:
Are you sure that you have your moves right?

yes.

ErictheRed wrote on 06/15/18 at 15:54:49:
6...d3? can just be met with a sensible developing move like 7.Nc3 and I don't see what Black has accomplished.

Really? You can't see what Black has accomplished? Excellent pressure along the a8-h1 diagonal, a spike pawn on d3 and active play.

ErictheRed wrote on 06/15/18 at 15:54:49:
Surely 6...e5! should get the exclamation mark

While I have not seen all of them, I have not yet come across a chess engine who which can evaluate an unbalanced position with a great deal of accuracy.

ErictheRed wrote on 06/15/18 at 15:54:49:
I wonder whether 3...d4 and 6...e5 is just as good

They probably are.
Mind you, I did say I liked the English idea of 6...d3, not that it was any good. 
Lets face it, an appearance by 1. g4 out side of blitz, bullet or rapid is rare.
  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #5 - 06/15/18 at 15:54:49
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Hadron wrote on 05/18/18 at 14:49:33:
I rather like the English idea of 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 d4 !? 4. Bxb7 Nd7 5. Bxa8 Qxa8 6. f3 d3 !......
but even if one does play 3.c4 dxc4 is 5.Bxa8 necessarily forced?



Are you sure that you have your moves right?  6...d3? can just be met with a sensible developing move like 7.Nc3 and I don't see what Black has accomplished.  Surely 6...e5! should get the exclamation mark. 

I've played (in blitz only) the line with 3...dxc4 and 6...e5, I wonder whether 3...d4 and 6...e5 is just as good.
  
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Hadron
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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #4 - 05/18/18 at 14:49:33
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I rather like the English idea of 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 d4 !? 4. Bxb7 Nd7 5. Bxa8 Qxa8 6. f3 d3 !......
but even if one does play 3.c4 dxc4 is 5.Bxa8 necessarily forced?

  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #3 - 05/16/18 at 14:30:07
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Wow I did not even think it would be talked about on the forum. Thanks.
  
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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #2 - 05/16/18 at 11:43:29
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I just used the improved Google search here on the forum, and voilà: 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 dxc4 4. Bxb7 Nd7 has been debated (along with other supposedly promising answers to Grob) in a couple of previous threads:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1341203734/all

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1058536412/all

Notably the exchange sac with 3...dxc4 was recommended by Markovich - the late, great promoter of direct, classical chess. The threads also mention coverage of it in Richard Palliser's book Beating Unusual Chess Openings.

  

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Re: Line against grob for black?
Reply #1 - 05/16/18 at 09:54:27
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Mtal wrote on 05/16/18 at 03:20:22:
I know I saw this line in a book or video somewhere.


Strange, me too, but I can't remember where, I thought it was on the main site, https://www.chesspublishing.com/content, but when I looked under ECO A00 I couldn't find the 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 dxc4 line at all, just 3...c6. The continuation 4. Bxb7 Nd7 5. Bxa8 Qxa8 6. f3 e5 looks like great fun for Black. Of course, Black can get a solid advantage by playing more sensible moves! Roll Eyes

  
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Mtal
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Line against grob for black?
05/16/18 at 03:20:22
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Hi all, I know I saw this line in a book or video somewhere. It is g4 d5, c4 pxp, Bg2 Bxg4, Bxb7 and sack the exchange etc... One of my friends plays g4 against me now and then and wanted something fun to play against him. I tried this with out knowing any theory, would like to investigate it more. Thanks,
  
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