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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What to play against the benoni? (Read 2751 times)
MNb
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #16 - 08/30/18 at 08:30:59
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Jupp53 wrote on 08/29/18 at 23:18:06:
Donner described him politely.

Yes, but Donner's irony won't escape any Dutch chess player. Donner's polite tone is even necessary to make the irony work.

Stigma wrote on 08/30/18 at 01:22:01:
but not for the other, more deplorable aspects of his life and career.

I'm not so sure. That's why I linked to Donner's article.

"Für denjenigen, der ins Absolute schaut, hat der Krieg nur dann einen Sinn, wenn er als Vernichtungskrieg geführt wird."
"For those who look into the absolute, war is only meaningful as a total war, aiming at destruction."
Pretty tasteless, especially in 1956, even for an article about chess. I also suspect that the typical excessive usage of exclamation marks is correleated. But that's just me being incapable of shaking off 20st Century history.
Disclaimer: I've played the BDG and especially the Ryder Gambit myself a few times. I just dislike the mindset connected to the idea that such openings are "special". The more I became aware of the "BDG Gemeinde" (which fortunately seems to be defunct) the worse the taste in my mouth got.
The exclamation mark after 3.b4 is a symptom of such a mindset, though I'm far from sure if Gambit Zilbermints realizes it.

And now I'm done as I've said all I had to say.
  

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Stigma
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #15 - 08/30/18 at 01:22:01
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Jupp53 wrote on 08/29/18 at 23:18:06:
MNb wrote on 08/29/18 at 08:25:08:
For the uninitiated: Zilbermints is promoting himself in the previous comment. In his language the exclamation mark doesn't mean that the move is objecitvely good, only that he likes it very much. It's part of the Emil Joseph Diemer Method.

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/donner_prophet_von_muggensturm_en.html

I cannot resist the temptation of pointing out the irony of Gambit Zilbermints being an apostle of Diemer.


Thanks for the link. There's no irony of GambitZilbermints being an epigone of Diemer. Donner described him politely. He made many people critical to his (criminal) ideas in consequence of his behavior.

There is an irony here, but a very dark one. Perhaps it's best to leave it at this point. This is just a chess forum after all. Diemer may be relevant for his writings on chess openings, whatever one thinks of them, but not for the other, more deplorable aspects of his life and career.
  

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Jupp53
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #14 - 08/29/18 at 23:18:06
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MNb wrote on 08/29/18 at 08:25:08:
For the uninitiated: Zilbermints is promoting himself in the previous comment. In his language the exclamation mark doesn't mean that the move is objecitvely good, only that he likes it very much. It's part of the Emil Joseph Diemer Method.

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/donner_prophet_von_muggensturm_en.html

I cannot resist the temptation of pointing out the irony of Gambit Zilbermints being an apostle of Diemer.


Thanks for the link. There's no irony of GambitZilbermints being an epigone of Diemer. Donner described him politely. He made many people critical to his (criminal) ideas in consequence of his behavior.
  

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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #13 - 08/29/18 at 17:58:49
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MNb
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #12 - 08/29/18 at 08:25:08
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For the uninitiated: Zilbermints is promoting himself in the previous comment. In his language the exclamation mark doesn't mean that the move is objecitvely good, only that he likes it very much. It's part of the Emil Joseph Diemer Method.

http://www.belkaplan.de/chess/bdg/diemer/donner_prophet_von_muggensturm_en.html

I cannot resist the temptation of pointing out the irony of Gambit Zilbermints being an apostle of Diemer.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Gambit
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #11 - 08/29/18 at 07:50:06
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Try 1 d4 c5 2 Nf3 cxd4 3 b4!, the Zilbermints Benoni. Use Internet to find articles written by Zilbermints himself on this opening. Takes your opponent out of book!!
  
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mn
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #10 - 07/11/18 at 22:45:22
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That would be it, yeah!
  
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #9 - 07/11/18 at 14:26:20
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mn wrote on 07/08/18 at 10:48:48:
2 dc5!? is far from the main line but has been tried by some very strong players over the years. I vaguely recall this being recommended somewhere but I cannot remember where.


I believe Jan Gustafsson gave 2.dxc5 in one of his videos or shows on chess24 as a decent alternative to 2.d5, which should still be the most principled and best move.
  
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #8 - 07/11/18 at 14:20:42
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Following up with c2-c4 seems strange to me in these lines. I guess it can cut down on the number of lines you need to learn, but Black has played a dodgy line and is being rewarded by a possible transposition back into a respectable opening.

After 1.d4 c5 2.d5 e5 3.e4 and Nb1-c3, it's quite hard for Black to get counterplay. e.g. 3...d6 4.Nc3 Be7 5.Nf3 Bg4 6.h3 Bxf3 7.Qxf3 Bg5 8.Bxg5 Qxg5 9.Nb5! Qd8 10.Qg4 Kf8 11.Nxd6. Most of my opponents play something like 5...Nf6 and simply have a poor position. White plays Be2 and 0-0 with Nf3-d2-c4 being an obvious follow-up in most cases. Of course a2-a4 is thrown in at the right moment i.e. after ...a7-a6 or ...Nb8-d7.
  

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mn
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #7 - 07/10/18 at 18:55:20
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True - then g3/Bg2/Nge2 is a relatively easy-to-play set-up against the Czech Benoni, IIRC.
  
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #6 - 07/10/18 at 08:16:26
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mn wrote on 07/09/18 at 08:43:00:
So after [1 d4 c5 2 d5 e5]


With the Benko now ruled out (assume White doesn't want to face it) , 3. c4 can also be played
  
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mn
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #5 - 07/09/18 at 08:43:00
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So after [1 d4 c5 2 d5 e5] 3 e4 d6 4 Nc3, what is the line that's giving you trouble - slower lines with ...Nf6, or the ...Be7/...Bg4xf3/...Bg5 stuff?
  
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #4 - 07/08/18 at 13:19:12
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MNb wrote on 07/08/18 at 08:01:30:
How did the game continue after 1.d4 c5 2.d5 ?
Assuming it's 2...d6 3.e4 Nf6 4.Nc3 g6 (Schmidt Benoni) I think the two most promising options are
a) 5.f4 Bg7 6.Bb5+; the bishop may go back to d3 and White has a good version of the Austrian Attack as both e4-e5 and a GPA like plan are dangerous;
b) 5.Nf3 Bg7 6.Bb5+; the bishop may go back to e2 and White has a good version of the Classical Pirc (compare 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Be2 O-O 6.O-O c5 7.d5).


Well the game went d4, c5, then e5.  Sad
  
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #3 - 07/08/18 at 11:19:47
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Mtal wrote on 07/08/18 at 05:07:09:
I usually play the London and tromp, and a colle now and then. Thanks.


After 1. d4 c5 2. d5 Nf6 3. Bg5 you are back in a Tromp. Indeed whenever Black plays .. Nf6 you have Bg5 .

Otherwise play 3. c4 and a transposition to a form of Modern Benoni, old Benoni or Benko would seem inevitable. You have to know your 1. d4, 2. c4 openings of course.

At the risk for Black of getting transposed into something else, playing 1. d4 c5 is a move order device of avoiding Londons, Tromps and Colles.
  
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mn
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Re: What to play against the benoni?
Reply #2 - 07/08/18 at 10:48:48
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2 c3 is I guess not terrible if you really don't want to push d4-d5. You have to be willing to play the White side of an Exchange Slav after 2...cd4 3 cd4 d5, though.

2 dc5!? is far from the main line but has been tried by some very strong players over the years. I vaguely recall this being recommended somewhere but I cannot remember where.

Mayyybe even 2 e4 if you know your opponent is not a Sicilian player.

But yeah, 2 d5! is of course the best move, and what I'd recommend mostly highly. Here, as MNb said, it'd be helpful to know how your game went and what exactly what went wrong.
  
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