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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6 (Read 847 times)
H-HH
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #10 - 09/06/18 at 16:34:52
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The great advantage in playing 6...Qd7 is that the lady cant be harrassed by Ne4, so black can omit or postpone ...Nf6. Some of my games go 7.0-0 Nc6 8.Nb3 a6 9.Nbxd4 Nxd4 10.Nd4 Qc7 11. Bb3 Bd6, hitting h2 quickly. Of course white can play other (better) moves, but black has chances to develop quicker counterplay or even play with ...Ne7, when Bg5 does not threaten give black doubled f pawns.
  

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Bondefanger
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #9 - 08/30/18 at 06:25:12
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I think there was a NIC Yearbook survey in issue 124 on it. They called it the "Mouse slip"-variation
  
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #8 - 08/29/18 at 20:01:54
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It could be mentioned that 6...Qd7 has appeared in Chess Publishing, e.g. in February and March of this year and November of last.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #7 - 08/29/18 at 19:58:41
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MW wrote on 08/29/18 at 04:01:09:
Having looked through all my books on the French, the only reference to 6....Qd7 that I could find was in Nikita Vitiugov's 2010 book, The French Defence Reloaded. In a note the author simply says that Black should consider the move 6...Qd7. He goes on to say that it has been tried at a high level and Black seemed to solve his opening problems. 

Perhaps with 6...Qd6 holding up so well there has simply been no need for black to look beyond this move in this line.

But if you look at the actual games played since Vitiugov's book, lots of strong players have taken up 6...Qd7. So clearly some people have felt a need to look beyond 6...Qd6.

I took a glance at John Shaw's recent Playing 1.e4 repertoire, and he gives both 6...Qd7 and 6...Qd8 an '!?', commenting that 6...Qd8 is suprisingly strong. He also recommends a different setup for White against 6...Qd7 and 6...Qd8, going Qe2 instead of winning back the d4 pawn immediately (as he does after 6...Qd6 7.0-0 Nf6 8.Nb3).

Just flicking through the chapter I didn't see any lines where Black plays the ...Bd6 and ...Nge7 setup I mentioned. The logic seems to be that if Black plays either ...Qd6 without ...Nf6 or ...Bd6 without ...Nf6, White will want to have kept the "Tarrasch knight" on d2 in order to answer Ne4 (though the immediate 6...Qd6 7.Ne4 runs into 7...Qb4+ forcing a knight retreat, but I notice several decent players from Croatia and Slovenia have tried playing this with White as a gambit line). So Black plays ...Nf6 to take away the Ne4 option, and then White usually replies Nb3.
  

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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #6 - 08/29/18 at 17:54:55
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Thanks. I was recently pointed to the game Adams-Howell (British Championship 2018) where David played Qd7 and equalised very comfortably
  
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #5 - 08/29/18 at 09:01:29
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As @Stigna said before, the queen is going to be placed on c7 anyways. And for me the principal differences/similarities between Qd6 and Qd7 are:

1- If White plays normal moves (not trying to exploit anything based on the difference of the placement of Her Majesty) play usually transposes: Qc7 attacking the bishop, etc...

2- The plan a6+b5+Bb7 is faster because the Queen is safer to any attack on d7, and having the Queen on d7 invites the bishop to go to b7 (d7 is occupied right now)

3- The bishop on f8 is free to go to c5 or b4 (more active squares if you want a sharper position), this is the main difference, imho

Based on my level of opposition (1700-2000 FIDE) there is no real difference, and the subtleties of having he Queen on d7 are too superfluous, compared to having a better understanding of main line (Qd6). This is enough for me. The change may be good if your opponent is very booked and you want to surprise him, but... they are very similar in essence.

My 50 cents,
  
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MW
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #4 - 08/29/18 at 04:01:09
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Having looked through all my books on the French, the only reference to 6....Qd7 that I could find was in Nikita Vitiugov's 2010 book, The French Defence Reloaded. In a note the author simply says that Black should consider the move 6...Qd7. He goes on to say that it has been tried at a high level and Black seemed to solve his opening problems. 

Perhaps with 6...Qd6 holding up so well there has simply been no need for black to look beyond this move in this line.
  
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Stigma
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #3 - 08/29/18 at 01:10:48
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No problem.

I hope someone who really knows this territory chimes in, though! While I have played the French Tarrasch from both sides, I always avoided these ...Qxd5 main lines.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Krudos
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #2 - 08/28/18 at 23:05:24
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Thanks Stigma, that will help me along the way.
  
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Re: Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
Reply #1 - 08/25/18 at 23:14:21
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I'm not an expert on this, but here are two differences to get the thread moving:

- With ...Qd7, Black is more likely to play an early ...a6, ...b5 and ...Bb7, solving the apparent disharmony of the Bc8/Qd7 placement

- If Black intends the recently popular setup with ...Bd6 and ...Nge7, with the queen on d7 he can play both of those moves first before deciding whether to go ...Qc7 (as he usually does)

Of course 6...Qd6, 6...Qd7 and 6...Qd8 often come to the same thing, as ...Qc7 is played soon anyway. I actually couldn't think of any obvious advantages of ...Qd6, but I'm sure there are some since it's still played. Maybe the threat of ...Qb4+ or supporting ...e6-e5 are useful in some lines.

  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Krudos
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Tarrasch with Qxd5: 6...Qd7 compared to 6... Qd6
08/25/18 at 17:27:01
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In Playing the French (Aagard, Ntirlis), in the 3...c5 mainline , they recommend 4 exd5 Qxd5 5 Ngf3 cxd4 6 Bc4 Qd6. In the Chess 24 Play the French ,Vallejo recommends the rarer 6..Qd7.

I am interested to understand what the major differences/ pros and cons between the two lines are as I am thinking of switching to the Qd7 line
  
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