Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana (Read 3761 times)
MW
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 29
Joined: 04/20/18
Gender: Male
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #58 - 12/06/18 at 03:09:52
Post Tools
Having read a lot about the length of the match, I do agree it should be a little longer perhaps 16 games and with less rest time; e.g. a rest day after each three games.

In saying that not sure that Caruana's choice of the Rossolimo and then 7 Nd5 against the Sveshnikov advanced his cause that much...Carlsen is very comfortable in these types of position...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Confused_by_Theory
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 346
Location: Europe
Joined: 05/13/15
Gender: Male
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #57 - 12/02/18 at 19:10:30
Post Tools
Hi.

TD wrote on 12/02/18 at 08:20:56:
Do you know who the seconds were of both players?

Carlsen's seconds were Peter Heine Nielsen (in New York) of course. But also Fressinet, Jan Gustafsson, Grandelius and an as of yet unknown one. These last four were stationed somewhere in Asia during the match. They slept when play was going on and I guess the point to this elaborate arrangement was they woke up to daylight.

Have a nice evening.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IsaVulpes
Full Member
***
Offline


No.

Posts: 240
Joined: 12/09/07
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #56 - 12/02/18 at 10:13:08
Post Tools
TD wrote on 12/02/18 at 08:20:56:
Do you know who the seconds were of both players?

Caruana confirmed that his team was Rustam, Ramirez, Chirila & Leinier-Dominguez

Carlsen didn't really answer the question; the only thing I think we know is that JLH wasn't one of his seconds. Gustafsson was likely again a part of the team, as he didn't do any coverage on chess24?

Re: Odd Number of Games with an extra White and draw odds,
Karjakin suggested a variation of this: https://twitter.com/SergeyKaryakin/status/1068462511819759617
Too few games for my taste, but the champion being allowed to choose which of the two he prefers is an interesting idea
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
TD
Senior Member
****
Offline


Feyenoord forever!

Posts: 373
Location: Rotterdam, NLD
Joined: 02/12/11
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #55 - 12/02/18 at 08:20:56
Post Tools
Do you know who the seconds were of both players?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
Senior Member
****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 344
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #54 - 11/28/18 at 23:03:58
Post Tools
Judging by coverage on npr.org, which was not noticeable *during* the match but three quick articles since the end of regulation, I don't think the tiebreakers have any impact on the "man in the street" opinion of the match. The fact that the play was speeding up was reported in an entirely neutral fashion. "We have a winner" about sums it up.

The match may have been too short, but one upside is that there were "only" 12 consecutive draws. These two players were quite capable of producing a longer series of draws.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
an ordinary chessplayer
Senior Member
****
Offline


I used to be not bad.

Posts: 344
Location: Columbus, OH (USA)
Joined: 01/02/15
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #53 - 11/28/18 at 22:39:21
Post Tools
IsaVulpes wrote on 11/26/18 at 20:54:09:
The first is for the WCh:
- Add a few games, and make it an *odd* number!
- The challenger gets an extra White
- In the event of a draw, the champion retains the title

"A few" here meaning play 15/17; if we reduce the amount of rest days a bit that wouldn't even necessarily lengthen the WCh by much.
This is actually a very clever suggestion. The value of an extra white is easy to quantify, diminishing as the match lengthens. The value of draw odds in the match is less easy to quantify. Maybe one of those cake-cutting games is needed. One of the players proposes a match length, and the other player chooses either the extra white or the draw odds.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2392
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #52 - 11/28/18 at 22:27:51
Post Tools
IsaVulpes wrote on 11/28/18 at 18:28:28:
Well there you go, taking the draw in move 12 was more than correct. What a slaughter.


Just because his decision in game 12 worked out doesn't mean that it was the correct one.
« Last Edit: 11/29/18 at 00:28:44 by ErictheRed »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IsaVulpes
Full Member
***
Offline


No.

Posts: 240
Joined: 12/09/07
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #51 - 11/28/18 at 20:49:06
Post Tools
ReneDescartes wrote on 11/28/18 at 19:24:09:
rather than to something approaching the abolition of the classical chess championship altogether and the extinction of Steinitz line.

This sounds extremely unlikely to me. As said, the Classical WCh is pretty much the only time that press and public are following chess at all; all complaints about draws and whatnot recognised, it's still by far the biggest pull of anything out there.

Abolishing it altogether just won't happen. There might be some change here or there, but the general format will stick around (rather than being substituted for some kind of knockout or such), I am almost 100% sure.

Chess was in the Top3 on Twitch with over 100k viewers, there were another close to 100k watching on Chess24 split across the three languages, and that isn't even counting the official broadcast and massive press coverage yet - for example https://fivethirtyeight.com/ had lots of analysis and information written by people clearly not naturally affiliated with chess. They can't/won't just "drop" this.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ErictheRed
God Member
*****
Offline


USCF National Master

Posts: 2392
Location: USA
Joined: 10/02/05
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #50 - 11/28/18 at 20:04:06
Post Tools
I agree with Rene: the only substantive change that I'd like to see is to a longer classical match.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
IsaVulpes
Full Member
***
Offline


No.

Posts: 240
Joined: 12/09/07
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #49 - 11/28/18 at 19:41:02
Post Tools
Stigma wrote on 11/28/18 at 19:27:11:
I think the below was a good suggestion for mixing up the format. It would give more incentive for taking chances while returning to a sharp division between classical and faster time controls.
IsaVulpes wrote on 11/26/18 at 20:54:09:

The first is for the WCh:
- Add a few games, and make it an *odd* number!
- The challenger gets an extra White
- In the event of a draw, the champion retains the title

"A few" here meaning play 15/17; if we reduce the amount of rest days a bit that wouldn't even necessarily lengthen the WCh by much.
[...]


Another note on top of this is of course that you can play a much shorter classical control.
There's no need to directly turn everything into Rapid, but 90+30/30 is the standard FIDE control;
I think it would already help if the WCh simply used that, instead of the 100+30/50/15 it currently does.

Then again, you can of course always make the point that more time also helps with converting better positions (as you are actually able to calculate until you find a win), but I think overall less time will always help the attacker more than the defender, and induce more aggressive play (+ some mistakes) in general.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 2897
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #48 - 11/28/18 at 19:27:11
Post Tools
I think the below was a good suggestion for mixing up the format. It would give more incentive for taking chances while returning to a sharp division between classical and faster time controls.

IsaVulpes wrote on 11/26/18 at 20:54:09:

The first is for the WCh:
- Add a few games, and make it an *odd* number!
- The challenger gets an extra White
- In the event of a draw, the champion retains the title

"A few" here meaning play 15/17; if we reduce the amount of rest days a bit that wouldn't even necessarily lengthen the WCh by much.
[...]

« Last Edit: 11/29/18 at 00:59:28 by Stigma »  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ReneDescartes
God Member
*****
Offline


Qu'est-ce donc que je
suis? Une chose qui pense.

Posts: 965
Joined: 05/18/10
Gender: Male
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #47 - 11/28/18 at 19:24:09
Post Tools
Let us suppose that what is exciting is a fluctuation in which one player looks like he stands to win the match, after which the other catches up or even himself looks more likely to win the match, and so on down to the wire. Was that then missing here? No: in a 12-game match between opponents of equal strength, a one-game advantage is so great that this happened, only within games rather than between them.

Though Judith Polgar, for example, disagrees with me, I think that for many of those who understand chess the fighting draws were not a problem. Nevertheless, I predict that this match will, like Karpov-Kasparov 1984, induce a change in the format of the classical world championship. Sponsors want not just to maintain the audience of capable chess players that existed in the past, but to draw in a more ignorant audience as well; and they also want low overhead costs. They are, in other words, naturally greedy, and to get what they want they have already cheapened the championship by shortening the matches . They will probably view this match as a fiasco despite widespread interest and apparent good revenues, if only because they could have made even more money if there had not been 12 classical draws. Thus I think some change is afoot.

Whatever Magnus may want, for myself I only hope that the change is to a longer classical match format, for example as proposed by Seirawan, rather than to something approaching the abolition of the classical chess championship altogether and the extinction of the Steinitz line.

Meanwhile, congratulations to the great Magnus!
« Last Edit: 11/29/18 at 03:19:28 by ReneDescartes »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mn
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 349
Location: Ottawa
Joined: 09/22/16
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #46 - 11/28/18 at 19:04:05
Post Tools
Agreed.
  
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Monocle
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 81
Joined: 12/03/16
Gender: Male
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #45 - 11/28/18 at 18:41:15
Post Tools
The championship format should be a champion vs challenger match, but 12 games is just too short.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


There is a crack in everything.

Posts: 2897
Joined: 11/07/06
Gender: Male
Re: World Championship / Carlsen-Caruana
Reply #44 - 11/28/18 at 18:29:23
Post Tools
That was brutal.

Should silence most of Carlsen's critics for now.

Long-term I still think they need to rethink the championship format. Draw upon draw in the classical games is a hard sell in today's hectic media scene, even though many of the games were real fights.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 4
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo