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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 (Read 722 times)
Jonathan Tait
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #11 - 12/08/18 at 09:47:08
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RdC wrote on 12/03/18 at 11:19:56:
Jonathan Tait wrote on 12/02/18 at 16:14:24:
He also suggests 4...f5!? if you feel like kicking White in the face


Bologan's suggestion of that line doesn't seem to have resulted in anyone playing it in practice in mainstream chess. There's a handful of games which seem to have pre-dated the book.


You say that as though it's a bad thing Tongue
  

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ReneDescartes
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #10 - 12/05/18 at 00:03:13
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I agree, but I'm curious why you quoted me on Parham.
« Last Edit: 12/05/18 at 23:18:39 by ReneDescartes »  
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RdC
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #9 - 12/04/18 at 23:23:16
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ReneDescartes wrote on 12/03/18 at 18:48:45:
Before Nakamura, this system was promoted by midwestern teacher Bernard Parham, whom I once met


It's not a totally trustworthy method to ask engines for opening opinions, since they can be programmed with mainstream prejudice. Asking for an assessment of 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 came up with it only being 0.07 worse. By contrast the same engine with the same setting thought both the Kings Gambit and the Blackmar in its 1. d4 d5 2. e4 form worse for White than - 0.3. The Morra it thought about equal.

It reckoned the Grob to be about - 0.5, suggesting 1. g4 d5 2. h3 e5 as best play.
  
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ReneDescartes
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #8 - 12/03/18 at 18:48:45
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Before Nakamura, this system was promoted by midwestern teacher Bernard Parham, whom I once met; he figured out a way to teach beginning students quickly how to bully other beginning players. Here are some important elements of his system:

--Tell kids knights are worth more than rooks
--Tell them the most important squares on the board are c7 and f7 (not the center)
--Teach them to play for scholar's mate, going into a little more depth than most defenders will have done.

Of course, little kids don't yet know how to use rooks or the center, but they can easily learn to move knights twice in the opening to the fifth rank to threaten c7 and f7, and their opponents often miss threats; so his teeny students beat many other beginners, and parents liked the success, not realizing Parham had mortgaged their kids' chess future to get some cheap present results.

He'd studied some math and physics in college, and to portray his method as scientific he threw in some utter charlatanry about matrix algebra and vectors. (Yes, a chessboard looks like a matrix, and yes, vectors look like arrows on lines of attack; but vectors consist only of a magnitude and a direction, like "five miles northwest," with no position, so that Qh5-e8 and Qd3-a6 are exactly the same vector. Furthermore, in vector mathematics, a matrix is used to distort vectors, not to house or define them--it would not be your chessboard; it would skew it.)

There is a flippant, insulting quality to the opening that no doubt appealed to the young Nakamura. And of course by insulting your opponent on the board you can get him to overpress, which is how Parham, a good tactician, sometimes beat masters with this opening (just as Miles beat Karpov with 1.a3).

Here is a link to a web article about Parham that is less judgmental about his methods than I am wont to be:

http://www.thechessdrum.net/talkingdrum/TheMatrix/index.html
« Last Edit: 12/04/18 at 18:23:45 by ReneDescartes »  
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RdC
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #7 - 12/03/18 at 11:19:56
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Jonathan Tait wrote on 12/02/18 at 16:14:24:
He also suggests 4...f5!? if you feel like kicking White in the face


Bologan's suggestion of that line doesn't seem to have resulted in anyone playing it in practice in mainstream chess. There's a handful of games which seem to have pre-dated the book.
  
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Jonathan Tait
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #6 - 12/02/18 at 16:14:24
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RdC wrote on 11/29/18 at 20:30:15:
Bologan in his tome Bologan's Black Weapons suggests the line
1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nc6 3. Bc4 g6 4. Qf3 Nf6 5. Ne2 Bg7 6. Nbc3 d6 7. d3 Nb4 8. Bb3 Be6 9. 0-0 Bxb3 10. cxb3


He also suggests 4...f5!? if you feel like kicking White in the face Smiley
  

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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #5 - 12/02/18 at 06:41:50
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I met the Scholar's mate-opening twice in fide rated standard games by +2100 players. Once in 2017 and once in 2018. They both wished just to avoid theory. It is playable although I have the impression it is rather white seeking equality.
http://chess-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/06/scholars-mate.html
or Dutch
http://schaken-brabo.blogspot.com/2017/06/herdersmat.html
  
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #4 - 12/01/18 at 17:41:52
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I recall that one of the Kaissiber magazines suggested 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nf6 3.Qxe5+ Be7 4.Qf4, where White gets the queen on a relatively safe square and can strive for the disruptive e4-e5 push, but assessed the line as approximately equal if both sides play accurately.

I have occasionally faced 2.Qh5 at the local chess club and have usually answered 2...Nf6 and have had good results with it.  I think the half-open e-file and rapid development give Black sufficient compensation, White has to be careful of potential pins down the e-file with ...Re8, and it is a psychological downer for those players who are hoping to keep threatening a Scholar's Mate, but I wouldn't go as far as to consider 2...Nf6 superior to 2...Nc6.

It's certainly better than 2...g6?? 3.Qxe5+, which is also quite often seen at junior level.

Edit:  I have just spotted an amusing transposition between this line and the other recently-active topic in this subforum, the Elephant Gambit.  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.Qe2 Be7 5.Qxe4 Nf6 6.Qe5?! (6.Qa4+ is the main problem with that line for Black) transposes to 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nf6 3.Qxe5+ Be7 4.Nf3 d5 5.exd5.
  
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #3 - 12/01/18 at 16:57:52
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I recall that one of the Kaissiber magazines suggested 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nf6 3.Qxe5+ Be7 4.Qf4, where White gets the queen on a relatively safe square and can strive for the disruptive e4-e5 push, but assessed the line as approximately equal if both sides play accurately.

I have occasionally faced 2.Qh5 at the local chess club and have usually answered 2...Nf6 and have had good results with it.  I think the half-open e-file and rapid development give Black sufficient compensation, White has to be careful of potential pins down the e-file with ...Re8, and it is a psychological downer for those players who are hoping to keep threatening a Scholar's Mate, but I wouldn't go as far as to consider 2...Nf6 superior to 2...Nc6.

It's certainly better than 2...g6?? 3.Qxe5+, which is also quite often seen at junior level.

Edit:  I have just spotted an amusing transposition between this line and the other recently-active topic in this subforum, the Elephant Gambit.  1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d5 3.exd5 e4 4.Qe2 Be7 5.Qxe4 Nf6 6.Qe5?! (6.Qa4+) 6...0-0 transposes to 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nf6 3.Qxe5+ Be7 4.Nf3 d5 5.exd5 0-0.
  
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RdC
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #2 - 12/01/18 at 10:12:43
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emary wrote on 12/01/18 at 00:03:34:
Maybe Black's gambit is not very good.


It's playable. Given that I'm on record as having played it, I did wonder whether that inspired a recent opponent to give 2. Qh5 a try. Post game analysis had shown that there's an improvement for White, but that Black had a means to avoid it.

Here's how the earlier game went

1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nf6 3. Qxe5 Be7 4. Nc3 Nc6 5. Qb5 0-0 6. Nf3 a6 7. Qe2 Bb4 8. d3 d5 9. Bd2 Bxc3 10. bxc3 dxe4 11. dxe4 Nxe4 12. 0-0-0 Nxd2 13. Qxd2

Black for preference because of the doubled pawns, but eventually the game was drawn. The trick that you can take the e pawn because of .. Re8 and that exd5 runs into the same problem pops up in a number of variations.
  
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emary
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Re: Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
Reply #1 - 12/01/18 at 00:03:34
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I watched a tournament-game between two children recently:
1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nf6?! 3.Qxe5 Be7.
Not at all clear if this was a sacrifice or a blunder.
The Black player (7 years) showed no emotions after Qxe5.

Maybe Black's gambit is not very good. But it could be instructive if children play this position a few times for fun. In the game (not recorded) Black got a winning position quickly.
  
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RdC
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Meeting 1. e4 e5 2. Qh5
11/29/18 at 20:30:15
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Bologan in his tome Bologan's Black Weapons suggests the line
1. e4 e5 2. Qh5 Nc6 3. Bc4 g6 4. Qf3 Nf6 5. Ne2 Bg7 6. Nbc3 d6 7. d3 Nb4 8. Bb3 Be6 9. 0-0 Bxb3 10. cxb3

It's also possible to play 6. .. 0-0, because if now 7. d3, there's 7. .. Nd4 and if 8. Nxd4 exd4 9. Ne2, you have the freeing move 9. .. d5. The point is that you can flick in .. Bg4 and .. Bxe2, so that the White King gets stuck in the centre.
  
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