Just to know what is the general opinion...
It is a pity there are only 10 possible answers in these polls  :'(

Personally I prefered the Dlugy variation but since the last DW (black plays c4), I am not so confident any more...

Tough question. I play the old accepted main line (but without the unnecessary h3) when I want to "play for two results". Black has depressingly few winning chanses against this if White knows what he's doing. But the fianchetto with Rb1 might be even stronger.

Benko players are supposed to love the gambit positions but when I tried it out I was least comfortable against precisely the two main lines I mentioned. I've also found 5.e3 effective against some "Benko automatons", but I won't bet that it gives White anything objectively.

I prefer 4.Nf3 and only after ...g6 Zaitsev's 5.cxb5 a6 6.Nc3. But I might very well change opinions within a few years.

i play the accpeted with b6. i dont think it's the 'best' line but the ideas are clear and it's simple enough to play.

thibdb13 wrote on 01/22/09 at 19:51:41:

Personally I prefered the Dlugy variation but since the last DW (black plays c4), I am not so confident any more...

Concerning this variation, one solution to the vaunted queen sac might be to play straight into it and be well prepared.  I suspect that with enough prior study, White could make a pretty good game of it.

MNb wrote on 01/23/09 at 00:53:26:

I prefer 4.Nf3 and only after ...g6 Zaitsev's 5.cxb5 a6 6.Nc3. But I might very well change opinions within a few years.

I like the idea of playing 4.Nf3 and then if 4...g6 5.cxb5 a6, then 6.b6 although I haven't looked at it in awhile.

Markovich wrote on 01/23/09 at 15:54:38:

thibdb13 wrote on 01/22/09 at 19:51:41: Personally I prefered the Dlugy variation but since the last DW (black plays c4), I am not so confident any more... Concerning this variation, one solution to the vaunted queen sac might be to play straight into it and be well prepared.  I suspect that with enough prior study, White could make a pretty good game of it.

I am not concerned about the queen sac: it does not happen so often (I never played against it) and white has some ways to survive it.
The variation that causes me the most problems is: 1.d4-Nf6 2.c4-c5 3.d5-b5 4.cb5-a6 5.f3-ab5 6.e4-c4. There is an article about it in the DW book about the Benoni and the Benko.

With 4.Nf3 I have finally found a line in which I score about 50% against the Benko. For some reason, the Benko has for a long time been the opening that I score miserably against no matter what line I played. I voted for accepted with e4 and g3 though, as I believe it's objectively better. This is one of the extremely rare cases where I play a move when I believe there's another objectively stronger one - I can't really explain why I always end up playing badly in the other lines.

Girkassa wrote on 01/26/09 at 23:08:36:

With 4.Nf3 I have finally found a line in which I score about 50% against the Benko. For some reason, the Benko has for a long time been the opening that I score miserably against no matter what line I played. I voted for accepted with e4 and g3 though, as I believe it's objectively better. This is one of the extremely rare cases where I play a move when I believe there's another objectively stronger one - I can't really explain why I always end up playing badly in the other lines.

Maybe under too much pressure on the Q-side?

What's going on with 3...b5 4.cb a6 5.ba Ba6 6.Nc3 (d6,g6) 7.f4? As recomended by Keene's 1.d4 repertoire book.


Thx

Holbox wrote on 01/27/09 at 18:27:57:

What's going on with 3...b5 4.cb a6 5.ba Ba6 6.Nc3 (d6,g6) 7.f4? As recomended by Keene's 1.d4 repertoire book. Thx

What's the tittle?

I actually had a look at that semi recently and even played it once or twice.

Its probably not the best move but its also not so bad and has been written off slightly flippantly by a few recent Benko books. iIirc they tend to give lines with Qa5 and then white swapping queens on a6 into a bad pawn up ending. Not forced!

Ok so Qa5 does certainly stop any really fast e5 breaks but white can keep the game going well enough. Interesting equality might be more than the Benko deserves of course ;)

The b6 lines (with maybe Nf3 first if you don't like b6 e6) might be a slightly more accurate way to play with an e4/f4 pawn structure.

Keene's book title:

An Opening Repertoire For White

Holbox wrote on 01/28/09 at 11:47:45:

Keene's book title: An Opening Repertoire For White

It's quite old, dating back to the 70's, I think.  I have a copy somewhere.  It influenced my 1.d4 repertoire.  But it's very out of date.

The 7. f4 line is advocated in the second edition of the Keene book, from about 1995.  The first edition, from about 1984, advocated 4. Nf3.

According to theory the fianchetto with 10. rb1 is best,
but in my opinion the positions are far from clear and there are many practical chances for black.
So after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 I would play 3.Nf3.
Why not play a 2nd rate move against a 2nd rate defence and give them their own medicine :-)

wrote on 01/28/09 at 17:05:25:

So after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 I would play 3.Nf3. Why not play a 2nd rate move against a 2nd rate defence and give them their own medicine :-)

Because I suspect prospective Benkoers, one need be prepared for the sharp play after 3....cd 4. Nd4 e5 !?.

Which is a 1st rate gambit.

It no doubt is. Still they are complicated positions with a fair amount of analysis. So if white really prepares it then I suspect he might score pretty well - I don't know how many black players really look hard at this as opposed to just 'playing' it.

Personally I like White's chances in this gambit.  But if you answer 2...c5 with 3.Nf3, you have to be prepared not only for this but for a wide range of Symmetrical English ideas.  Also if this is your game, you might consider starting out 1.Nf3.

According to Starting out Benoni systems it seems  the Kings walk variation (named that way in the "Mastering benko/benoni) has some psycological impact on Benko players. I consider use this variation. It also seems to be a respected line for white.

The argument of exchange the light square bishop is that the bishop is quite blocked by the white center pawns. Do white need the bishop ?. Probably for having a safe kings position only.

Also you exchange one piece more which is good when ahead in material. The drawback is of course whites kings position which is worse than in the fianchetto lines.  

If I am not wrong I think Karpov has played the Kings Walk variation mostly when faced with the Benko. Maybe after following Avrukhs repertoire I have to play fianchetto line anyhow . Well see.

If the Benko is ever refuted by a supercomputer of the future, I'd bet on the accepted/king's walk variation (Kxf1, g3, Kg2).  It's what I generally play OTB.

When I'm tired, paired down, playing blitz or otherwise don't feel like letting Black play a bunch of automatic moves or dealing with the pressure on the a- and b- files, I'll decline with 4.Nf3.

I wouldn't call it the best way to meet the Benko, but 4.Bg5, as suggested in 'Dangerous Weapons: The Benoni and Benko' looks like a unorthodox yet quite tricky anti-Benko line.

I once had a look at the 5.f3 Dlugy Variation, but never played it as White because I couldn't find any advantage for White in the 5...e6 6.e4 ed5 7.e5 Qe7 8.Qe2 Ng8 9.Nc3 Bb7 10.Nh3 c4 11.Be3 ab5 12.0-0-0 Qb4 variation, with the key idea of the queen sacrifice 13.Rd5 Qc3! 14.bc3 Bd5 15.Nf4 Ba3 16.Kb1 Ne7, which has been assessed as equal by some commentators but is in my (and Pinski's) view somewhat favourable for Black. 13.Nf4 Ne7 14.Qf2 is more common, but Black fully equalises here as well. Based partly on my experience with the variation as Black, I would argue that the 5.f3 e6 variation is even easier to play for Black than White.

Novosibirsk wrote on 01/29/09 at 15:32:09:

According to Starting out Benoni systems The argument of exchange the light square bishop is that the bishop is quite blocked by the white center pawns. Do white need the bishop ?. Probably for having a safe kings position only. Also you exchange one piece more which is good when ahead in material. The drawback is of course whites kings position which is worse than in the fianchetto lines.

I once analysed a game with a benko player where I played the fianchetto variation, his thought on variation was that his black bishop is in the way of his forces, and he would like it better to get it exchanged against the f1-bishop.

I don't really know the ultimate truth myself, there are pros and cons in exchanging the lightsquared bishop.


Quote:

Because I suspect prospective Benkoers, one need be prepared for the sharp play after 3....cd 4. Nd4 e5 !?.

I think theory says it's bad, but theory probably says the same on the volga, so I do not really know. Tbh. I haven't looked into that gambit.
I play a different move order c4 Nf3, so I do not need to occupy myself with such things (the first tourney I played last year with 1.d4 I played with some knowledge of lines in the John Cox Starting Out: 1d4 book, like QGD, KID, Nimzo, Gruenfeld, Slav, QGA, but on the board I only got sidelines like albin's counter gambit, czech benoni, dutch stonewall, where I basically had to think for myself starting from move 2-5 running into totally prepared opponents, that is why I changed to 1.c4/1.Nf3, there are not so many cheaptricker defences there).

Hi everyone,
What about 4.f3 instead of 5.f3???
Thanks,
Zatara

thibdb13 wrote on 01/22/09 at 19:51:41:

Personally I prefered the Dlugy variation but since the last DW (black plays c4), I am not so confident any more...

Hmm, I have Pinski's book on the Benko, and after 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cxb5 a6 5.f3 e6 6.e4, he gives 6...c4 as highly dubious. Do you know if "Dangerous Weapons" offers improvements on Pinski's analysis to overturn this assessment?

TN wrote on 02/03/09 at 07:38:59:

I wouldn't call it the best way to meet the Benko, but 4.Bg5, as suggested in 'Dangerous Weapons: The Benoni and Benko' looks like a unorthodox yet quite tricky anti-Benko line. I once had a look at the 5.f3 Dlugy Variation, but never played it as White because I couldn't find any advantage for White in the 5...e6 6.e4 ed5 7.e5 Qe7 8.Qe2 Ng8 9.Nc3 Bb7 10.Nh3 c4 11.Be3 ab5 12.0-0-0 Qb4 variation, with the key idea of the queen sacrifice 13.Rd5 Qc3! 14.bc3 Bd5 15.Nf4 Ba3 16.Kb1 Ne7, which has been assessed as equal by some commentators but is in my (and Pinski's) view somewhat favourable for Black. 13.Nf4 Ne7 14.Qf2 is more common, but Black fully equalises here as well. Based partly on my experience with the variation as Black, I would argue that the 5.f3 e6 variation is even easier to play for Black than White.

How about the following line for White:

5.f3 e6 6.e4 exd5 7.e5 Qe7 8.Qe2 Ng8 9.Nc3 Bb7 10.Nh3 c4, and now 11.Nf4 Qc5 12.Nfxd5!?

It's been played a few times, but White didn't follow up correctly, e.g. Nguyen Chi Minh v Tirard (France, 2003) continued 12...Bxd5 13.Be3 Qb4 14.a3 Qa5 15.Bd2 Be6 16.Nd5 Qa4 17.Nb6 Qxb5 18.Nxa8 Qb7 19.Qe4 Nc6 20.Bxc4 Qxa8 with an unclear position, although Black's minor pieces may be preferable to the rook and pawn.

However, White can improve with 17.Nc7+! Kd8 18.b6! (not 18.Nxa8?! axb5 when White's knight might not be able to escape, e.g. 19.Nb6 Qa6 20.Be3 Bb4+! 21.axb4 [or 21.Kf2 Ba5!] 21...Qxa1+ 22.Kf2, unclear) 18...Qc6 19.Qe4 d5 20.exd6 Bxd6 21.Nxa8 Nf6 22.Qxc6 Nxc6 and White has Nc7, leaving him the exchange up for nothing! How about that! 8-)

I'm continuing the discussion of this line (with the better 14...Qd8) here:

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1173578867/10#10

Chess Stars will be releasing a book next month apparently. Should be interesting for Benko haters like me.

Squeezing the Gambits: the Benko, Budapest, Albin and Bluemenfeld by Kiril Georgiev - a positional repertoire for White

Thanks Antillian!

I've enjoyed many of Georgiev's games, so I will certainly be interested in this book.

As an aside, I grew weary of the Budapest books that seemed never to find a good idea for white. It may be refreshing to see a strong GM champion the first player in these lines.

Efstratios Grivas had an article proposing a White repertoire against the Budapest in the Yearbook a few volumes ago.

Antillian wrote on 02/06/10 at 23:40:50:

Chess Stars will be releasing a book next month apparently. Should be interesting for Benko haters like me. Squeezing the Gambits: the Benko, Budapest, Albin and Bluemenfeld by Kiril Georgiev - a positional repertoire for White

Great news! I'm looking forward to this book.

I've been using the Qc2 line (see fairly recent NiC yb) in blitz games but I'll surely take a close look at Georgiev's suggestions.

I've been continuing to use 10.Rb1 in correspondence games and have so far scored 100%.

But now, someone's played 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 b5 4.cb5 a6 5.ba6 Ba6 6.Nc3 g6 7.Nf3 Bg7 8.g3 0-0 9.Bg2 d6 10.Rb1 Nbd7 11.0-0 Qa5 12.Bd2 Rfb8 13.Qc2 Ng4 (13...Nb6 is discussed elsewhere) 14.b3 Nge5 15.Ne5 and now instead of the normal 15...Ne5, leading to a nice position for White, my opponent played 15...Be5!?

[fen]rr4k1/3npp1p/b2p2p1/q1pPb3/8/1PN3P1/P1QBPPBP/1R3RK1 w - - 0 16 [/fen]

The idea is 16.a4 c4! and Black has managed quite well!

So I tried 16.Ne4 Qa3 (again, see the 13...Nb6 line) 17.Bc3 c4! and Black managed to get sufficient counterplay.

Is there a known antidote to 15...Be5?

Any idea why the diagram didn't post properly? :-[
Thanks to Papageno for helping me! [smiley=beer.gif]

(I had an extra line in the fen.)

FWIW, Avrukh gives 15 Ne1! as the only way to an advantage (he thinks black is ok after 15 Nxe5 Nxe5.  One point is that the queen is defended so 15...c4?! 16 b4 Rxb4?! loses to 17 Ne4 so 17...Qa4 doesn't help.  His main line is 15 Ne1 Qa3 16 h3 when f4 is a threat and after the white queen moves Nc2 hits the black queen.  I haven't looked at this in detail but Avrukh has 2 pages on analysis on this line.

Antillian wrote on 02/06/10 at 23:40:50:

Chess Stars will be releasing a book next month apparently. Should be interesting for Benko haters like me. Squeezing the Gambits: the Benko, Budapest, Albin and Bluemenfeld by Kiril Georgiev - a positional repertoire for White

Looks like an interesting book from the intro - against the Benko he recommends a sophisticated move-order of 4.Nf3 and only if 4...g6 then going into the b6 stuff: 5.cxb5 a6 6.b6. This gives Black more options but apparently he is a bit concerned by 4.cxb5 a6 5.b6 e6!? It all looks like very sensible stuff for White, although I doubt Benko players will be quaking in their boots either.

Keano wrote on 07/05/10 at 14:35:45:

Antillian wrote on 02/06/10 at 23:40:50: Chess Stars will be releasing a book next month apparently. Should be interesting for Benko haters like me. Squeezing the Gambits: the Benko, Budapest, Albin and Bluemenfeld by Kiril Georgiev - a positional repertoire for White Looks like an interesting book from the intro - against the Benko he recommends a sophisticated move-order of 4.Nf3 and only if 4...g6 then going into the b6 stuff: 5.cxb5 a6 6.b6. This gives Black more options but apparently he is a bit concerned by 4.cxb5 a6 5.b6 e6!? It all looks like very sensible stuff for White, although I doubt Benko players will be quaking in their boots either.

You’re may be right in that it might not have Benko players quaking, no cutting-edge theory trying to outright refute black’s play, but its finally given me a line against the Benko that I feel comfortable with. The Benko has always been an opening that I just didn’t “get.” No matter what I tried, it failed miserably. Whenever it appeared on the board, I always felt like immediately resigning. Since getting the book, I’ve only faced the Benko in online blitz, but I feel like I finally know what I’m playing for and my results against it have improved markedly. I think this is an excellent work by Georgiev. The Main Ideas section of the Benko chapter is worth the price alone.

I agree with GrizzleBazzle.  The Georgiev book is excellent.  He presents a more straightforward way of playing the ..b6 lines than Palliser did in Play 1.d4, and puts some teeth in this system.  Along the way, he rehabilitates several lines that were thought to be fine for Black, improving on existing analysis by Knaak, Flear and others.  I've yet to get through the whole book -- there's a lot here -- but I've been impressed so far.   

Paul Cumbers wrote on 02/03/10 at 19:55:30:

How about the following line for White: 5.f3 e6 6.e4 exd5 7.e5 Qe7 8.Qe2 Ng8 9.Nc3 Bb7 10.Nh3 c4, and now 11.Nf4 Qc5 12.Nfxd5!? It's been played a few times, but White didn't follow up correctly, e.g. Nguyen Chi Minh v Tirard (France, 2003) continued 12...Bxd5 13.Be3 Qb4 14.a3 Qa5 15.Bd2 Be6 16.Nd5 Qa4 17.Nb6 Qxb5 18.Nxa8 Qb7 19.Qe4 Nc6 20.Bxc4 Qxa8 with an unclear position, although Black's minor pieces may be preferable to the rook and pawn. However, White can improve with 17.Nc7+! Kd8 18.b6! (not 18.Nxa8?! axb5 when White's knight might not be able to escape, e.g. 19.Nb6 Qa6 20.Be3 Bb4+! 21.axb4 [or 21.Kf2 Ba5!] 21...Qxa1+ 22.Kf2, unclear) 18...Qc6 19.Qe4 d5 20.exd6 Bxd6 21.Nxa8 Nf6 22.Qxc6 Nxc6 and White has Nc7, leaving him the exchange up for nothing! How about that! 8-)

It was interesting to see the recent game Nyzhnyk v Siebrecht (from Wijk aan Zee) follow my above analysis with 17.Nc7+:

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=6968

After 17...Kd8, White played 18.Nxa8 (which I considered to be inferior to 18.b6), and then 18...axb5 19.Nb6 Qa6 20.Be3 Bb4+ 21.axb4 Qxa1+ 22.Kf2 resulted in a position I assessed as unclear. However, Nyzhnyk showed that White seems to be doing well here too (the stranded knight on b6 isn't the problem I thought it would be). He wrapped things up nicely with a king hunt: 22...Nc6 23.Qd2 Nxe5 24.Qd6 Qxb2+ 25.Kg1 Nc6 26.Qf8+ Kc7 27.Qc8+ Kd6 28.Bc5+ Ke5 29.Nxd7+ Bxd7 30.Qxd7 Nf6 31.Qxc6 c3 32.Qd6+ Kf5 33.Bd3+ Kg5 34.Be3+ 1-0.

So the game only strengthens the conclusion that 16...Qa4 is a mistake (relatively best is 16...Qd8 - see other thread for Nakamura v Vachier Lagrave http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1173578867/10#10).

I have just played 13.Be3 in a corr. game at ICCF. I'll keep you guys informed.

What is with the benko gambit nowadays!?  :o
Everyone is playing it against me!

I actually meet it more than openings like the Nimzo and the QGD amazingly enough and it's not that I keep playing the same players over and over either.

Because of this I spent quite a lot of time cooking something up against this dreaded opening and actually managed to come up with something rather interesting and promising for once (for now it's classified information until I discover that my discovery was a complete failure).