ChessPub Forum - winawer poisoned pawn books

Bibs

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winawer poisoned pawn books
11/29/07 at 01:19:27

All, wonder if you can help please.

This follows on from the previous thread.

Suggestions for decent books for overview of winawer poisoned pawn? Ideas, plans. Am around 2300 I guess but easy and straightforward is good for me.

I looked thru all previous 19 pages of threads but couldn't find anything specific hence the present post.

Have half memory of John Watson's first book doing so, but havent seen it for many years, so memory may fail me.

Other suggested works? Doesnt have to be recent - can use dbase, Neil McD and here for that.

Languages - can manage French, German, English (and Japanese - but that seems unlikely to be of help!)

Much appreciate any help on this front,

regards

Bibs

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lnn2

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #1 - 11/29/07 at 02:00:29

Psakhis - Best overview I've seen (though fairly short - not more than 10 pages). He thinks Black is quite busted, but the line he recommends for White doesn't look so terrifying.

Pedersen- forget it

Watson 2nd ed - typical Watson book, not much "plans", sold it years ago, at that time suspected most of his lines can't stand the test of time (or Fritz).

Khalifman- have not seen this, but strongly suspect this should be best of the lot, his books tend to contain nice explanations, must be useful for black players even though white repertoire book.

probably your best sources are Chesspub, Khalifman and Psakhis.
am looking for a good Winawer PP book too. Neil if you're reading this, please write one

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Bibs

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #2 - 11/29/07 at 02:30:27

Inn2
Thanks for that.

I have Khalif, Psakhis, Pedersen. Khalif naturally very thorough and impressive. Psakhis bit of a phone directory - as noted in previous thread - a shocking format, but fair content. Pedersen - agree - unimpressive. Chess book by numbers.
Have McD's Winawer book too - bit too short frankly, but what is there is reasonable.

Had watson 1 and 2 years back, but moving house few times, then country - got left behind. Have PtF3 here but his winawer line is of course busted. Fortunately was shown the bust by a visiting GMelect mate before I played the line (he lost in it).

Yeah - the real PP book has yet to be written (in English anyhow). Other languages? Mnb may be the expert here...? Anyone?

Agree. Perhaps Neil could pen one - an e4 e6 repertoire book maybe. With Guimard thrown in to boot.

Thanks again Inn2,

Bibs

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Paddy

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #3 - 11/29/07 at 11:34:54

Bibs wrote on 11/29/07 at 02:30:27:

Inn2
Thanks for that.

I have Khalif, Psakhis, Pedersen. Khalif naturally very thorough and impressive. Psakhis bit of a phone directory - as noted in previous thread - a shocking format, but fair content. Pedersen - agree - unimpressive. Chess book by numbers.
Have McD's Winawer book too - bit too short frankly, but what is there is reasonable.

Had watson 1 and 2 years back, but moving house few times, then country - got left behind. Have PtF3 here but his winawer line is of course busted. Fortunately was shown the bust by a visiting GMelect mate before I played the line (he lost in it).

Yeah - the real PP book has yet to be written (in English anyhow). Other languages? Mnb may be the expert here...? Anyone?

Agree. Perhaps Neil could pen one - an e4 e6 repertoire book maybe. With Guimard thrown in to boot.

Thanks again Inn2,

Bibs

A few other sources that might be useful;

Much of the "busting" of the PP has been taking place in correspondence chess - check out especially the white games of Jonathan Tait. He wrote an influential article in Correspondence Chess 127 (!995) about his experiences with what has become known in PP circles as the Tait Variation: 13 Rb1 0-0-0 14 h4 Nf5 15 h5 d4 16 Rg1.

Französische Verteidigung - richtig gespielt - Ein Leben lang Französisch 2004 by Wolfgang Uhlmann, 2nd expanded edition (75 games). A nice hardback (but inexpensive) published by Joachim Beyer Verlag.

FRENCH POISONED PAWN by Zeuthen & Jarlnaes, Copenhagen 1971 (114pp) (Zeuthen was the co-author with Larsen of the famous ZOOM book). I don't have this but it could be a useful source of earlier material and PP themes.

By the way, Watson 2 is still well worth having.

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LeeRoth

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #4 - 12/01/07 at 03:35:35

CC IM John Knudsen, who used to play the PP with both colors, put out a newsletter devoted to the opening. I found the first six issues at the links below (I don't know if there were any more of them). They're a bit dated, but short and sweet, and definitely worth perusing. Of special interest to this thread, there's usually a section in each discussing the Winawer literature. (Incl. ChessPub!)

http://www.correspondencechess.com/knudsen/twr/01.txt
http://www.correspondencechess.com/knudsen/twr/02.txt
http://www.correspondencechess.com/knudsen/twr/03.txt
http://www.correspondencechess.com/knudsen/twr/04.txt
http://www.correspondencechess.com/knudsen/twr/05.txt
http://www.correspondencechess.com/knudsen/twr/06.txt

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Bibs

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #5 - 12/01/07 at 05:54:47

Leeroth, Paddy, Inn2 thanks all for your suggestions.

Paddy

The Uhlmann book - is it significantly different to his best games French collection?　Enough different stuff to merit purchase?

Correspondence chess mag - looks worth a look certainly. Tried to google but stumped. How to get hold of this publication?
Will rebuy PtF 2.
Other book - later maybe...
Thanks for your help!

LeeRoth

Great source - printed out just now, will put on my wading boots...
V useful biblio too, yes.
Seems he thinks that Winkelman f3 malarckey not as bad as one may expect.

Thanks again, all.

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Stigma

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #6 - 12/01/07 at 08:32:05

I have both editions of the Uhlmann book (Winning with the French, Batsford 1995 and Französisch richtig gespielt - Ein Leben lang Französisch, Beyer 2004) so might be well-placed to compare them.

[2004] basically contains 15 more games, although not all 15 were played after 1991 (the year of the first german edition). Unfortunately from a Poisoned Pawn perspective, Uhlmann largely switched to 7...0-0 from the late 80s on, so both books have the same 7 main games with 7...Qc7, and probably no really new material (I could do a more detailed comparison later).

One curious glitch in [2004] is the game Short-Uhlmann, 1988 with the line 7.Qg4 0-0 8.Bd3 Nbc6 9.Qh5 h6?, were the book gives a lenghty analysis of 9...Ng6, and then "forgets" to return to the actual Short-Uhlmann game, giving instead the concluding moves (with analysis) of Anand-Lputian, 2000!

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Bibs God Member Offline Posts: 1016	Re: winawer poisoned pawn books Reply #7 - 12/01/07 at 08:48:58 Stigma, thanks for that. Saves stumping up cash for something I would struggle to read!
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Paddy

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #8 - 12/01/07 at 12:42:47

Bibs wrote on 12/01/07 at 05:54:47:

Leeroth, Paddy, Inn2 thanks all for your suggestions.

Paddy
Correspondence chess mag - looks worth a look certainly. Tried to google but stumped. How .

"Correspondence chess" is the long-running magazine of the British Correspondence Chess Association, which has a website with contact details at

http://www.bcca.info

For many years under the editorship of Jon Tait it was a great magazine, and it's still a good one.

The French seems still to be quite popular in corres chess (perhaps because the positions can be hard for computers to "understand"!).

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Darthmambo

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #9 - 12/04/07 at 02:10:51

Don't forget the Moles book, also there was an book put out by ECO on the French (I think by Victor Kortcinoi), Mastering the French has some stuff in it, oh (man I had a chance to get my hands on it) way back, I think Keres wrote a french book.

Yeah guys, I am waiting for that poison pawn book too. Oh but I think for me, Chess Pub is really the only place now to get some Poision Pawn stuff.

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Jonathan Tait

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #10 - 07/06/10 at 12:30:34

Paddy wrote on 11/29/07 at 11:34:54:

A few other sources that might be useful;

Much of the "busting" of the PP has been taking place in correspondence chess - check out especially the white games of Jonathan Tait. He wrote an influential article in Correspondence Chess 127 (!995) about his experiences with what has become known in PP circles as the Tait Variation: 13 Rb1 0-0-0 14 h4 Nf5 15 h5 d4 16 Rg1.

It was always known round here as "The Big Line"

as in: "I got to play The Big Line"
with the usual corollary: "I therefore won very easily"

I can scan the article and post it up for download if anyone is still interested? (Theory has moved on a bit since then.)

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Seeley

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #11 - 07/06/10 at 14:24:07

Bibs wrote on 11/29/07 at 02:30:27:

Inn2
Thanks for that.

I have Khalif, Psakhis, Pedersen. Khalif naturally very thorough and impressive. Psakhis bit of a phone directory - as noted in previous thread - a shocking format, but fair content. Pedersen - agree - unimpressive. Chess book by numbers.
Have McD's Winawer book too - bit too short frankly, but what is there is reasonable.

Had watson 1 and 2 years back, but moving house few times, then country - got left behind. Have PtF3 here but his winawer line is of course busted. Fortunately was shown the bust by a visiting GMelect mate before I played the line (he lost in it).

Yeah - the real PP book has yet to be written (in English anyhow). Other languages? Mnb may be the expert here...? Anyone?

Agree. Perhaps Neil could pen one - an e4 e6 repertoire book maybe. With Guimard thrown in to boot.

Thanks again Inn2,

Bibs

Sorry, slightly off-topic, but where is Watson's Winawer line busted in PTF 3?

Thanks

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MilenPetrov YaBB Moderator Offline Winnie the Pooh Rules :) Posts: 332 Varna, Bulgaria Gender:	Re: winawer poisoned pawn books Reply #12 - 07/06/10 at 16:38:50 Also a good source of fresh info is NIC Yearbook. I will check at home in which issues this line has been covered recently.
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Fllg Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 131 Gender:	Re: winawer poisoned pawn books Reply #13 - 07/06/10 at 17:00:18 Jonathan Tait wrote on 07/06/10 at 12:30:34: I can scan the article and post it up for download if anyone is still interested? (Theory has moved on a bit since then.) That would be great! Thank you in advance.
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Troilus

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Re: winawer poisoned pawn books
Reply #14 - 07/06/10 at 17:44:58

"Had watson 1 and 2 years back, but moving house few times, then country - got left behind. Have PtF3 here but his winawer line is of course busted. Fortunately was shown the bust by a visiting GMelect mate before I played the line (he lost in it)."

What bust is that? Every attempt that I've seen, and there have been several, is flawed. Please be specific. 'Of course' is such a useful phrase when one lacks evidence.

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