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Re: 4.f3 idea (Read 1798 times)
Markovich
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #15 - 04/15/10 at 20:06:51
 
There seem to be a bizillion ways for Black to fight against 4.f3, all of them on the borderline of validity.  The only one I fully respect is 4...d5 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.bxc3 c5 7.cxd5 Nxd5.  But White has to be completely on his toes in a wide range of other cases, and I haven't always been successful in my struggle to prove White's advantage.  In general though, I revel in White's pawn center and, often as well, in his two bishops.
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Tripler64
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #16 - 04/16/10 at 15:21:52
 
True, 6..c6 isn't a main line in the sense that e.g. the Zaitsev Spanish is a main line. But the theory on 4.f3 is still evolving and relatively fresh. The line given by Markovich is generally accepted as the main line of 4.f3 with 8.dc being the most irritating move for Black. This is quite difficult for Black to meet and his winning chances seem to be zero (reasonable drwing chances though if B is prepare to soak up a little pressure!) That's why I asked about 6...c6.
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #17 - 04/16/10 at 16:26:31
 
Yeah, I totally agree. When I played 1. d4 exlusively, I relied on 4. f3, and to be honest, scored heavily with it - I'd estimate around 80% OTB. I think that in the main line, despite White's embarrassing tripled c-pawns, the extra pawn and two bishops make a strong impression, especially against weak players who don't understand the plans.
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #18 - 04/16/10 at 18:46:15
 
Tripler64 wrote on 04/16/10 at 15:21:52:
True, 6..c6 isn't a main line in the sense that e.g. the Zaitsev Spanish is a main line. But the theory on 4.f3 is still evolving and relatively fresh. The line given by Markovich is generally accepted as the main line of 4.f3 with 8.dc being the most irritating move for Black. This is quite difficult for Black to meet and his winning chances seem to be zero (reasonable drwing chances though if B is prepare to soak up a little pressure!) That's why I asked about 6...c6.


It is not difficult for black to meet if prepared, and white has no more winning chances than black in the main lines (that are dead drawn for the most part). Only the lack of winning chances argument stands up.

The only game I've ever lost OTB to 4. f3 (out of 5 games, 4 of which against 2200+ competition, final score being +3 -1 =1) was to IM Taylor when I pressed for more in an equal position. That was also the first time I had ever gotten 4. f3 OTB (the game appears in the chesslive.de database), so my opening play wasn't as good as it should've been.

Many Nimzo players don't bother learning the theory of the opening that deeply (compared to practicioners of the Grunfeld, or Semi-Slav), leading 4. f3 to have tremendous success as a result of the black player being largely unprepared, and white's plans being simple enough that 1600s could probably play the white side.
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Michael Ayton
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #19 - 04/16/10 at 19:01:25
 
Quote:
... the game appears in the chesslive.de database ...


Hasn't this site -- http://www.chesslive.de/ -- gone defunct? Is there a new one?? If so could you post the link?
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Markovich
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #20 - 04/16/10 at 20:15:16
 
BPaulsen wrote on 04/16/10 at 18:46:15:
Many Nimzo players don't bother learning the theory of the opening that deeply (compared to practicioners of the Grunfeld, or Semi-Slav)...


Now there's a claim for you.

BPaulsen wrote on 04/16/10 at 18:46:15:
...leading 4. f3 to have tremendous success as a result of the black player being largely unprepared and white's plans being simple enough that 1600s could probably play the white side.


And there's another.  I'll let those who play OTB sort that out, but it does look like a powerful practical argument for taking up 4.f3.  I myself don't think that White's game is so frightfully easy for an unprepared player to play, however.

In CC I rarely encounter a Black who doesn't know the "right" moves, but I do frequently encounter Blacks who have no idea of the dangers Black faces even in the lines that are nominally adequate for Black.
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BPaulsen
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Re: 4.f3 idea
Reply #21 - 04/16/10 at 23:25:36
 
Markovich wrote on 04/16/10 at 20:15:16:
Now there's a claim for you.


At least one GM has admitted to it to my knowledge, so it's not hard to believe it goes on in the lesser ranks. Not much of a claim when at least one titled player does it.

Quote:
And there's another.  I'll let those who play OTB sort that out, but it does look like a powerful practical argument for taking up 4.f3.  I myself don't think that White's game is so frightfully easy for an unprepared player to play, however.


4. f3 is definitely a good practical choice for that reason.

Quote:
In CC I rarely encounter a Black who doesn't know the "right" moves, but I do frequently encounter Blacks who have no idea of the dangers Black faces even in the lines that are nominally adequate for Black.


In CC, correct me if I'm wrong, databases are okay to use, no? That usually makes it harder to not figure out the right moves, if so.
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