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Yusupov's Colle (Read 4355 times)
miamisharks
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Yusupov's Colle
05/04/09 at 02:21:05  
Hi guys,

It has recently come to my attention that GM Yusupov has played (and won) many games with the Colle and Zukertort systems. Can you recommend any sources for the study of his games in these lines?

PS: I'd also like to study games where he transposes to some sort of QID with an early c2-c4. Thanks very much.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #1 - 05/08/09 at 03:30:43  
THE COLLE SYSTEM DVD by Nigel Davies is a good source for the discussion of an early c2-c4. Many times he points out how a Black set-up that works well against the standard Colle-Z is mis-aligned against the hanging pawns structure that results from White's c2-c4.

I used to hate the idea of c2-c4 because it meant I couldn't try for a Colle-Z type bind with the N on e5 supported by pawns on d4 and f4. Then I bought a book on hanging pawns, learned their strengths and weaknesses and now play c2-c4 with confidence.

I honestly believe the Colle Zuckertort/Yusupov is the best amateur opening out there. It's easy to learn and has the soundness and power of a main line GM opening.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #2 - 05/08/09 at 17:10:53  
Thanks. What skill level is the Davies dvd aimed at? I'd feel silly if I bought it and it was of those 1600-2000 type things.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #3 - 05/09/09 at 17:59:43  
I'm a 2150 player with a lot of material on the Colle-Z and I found Davies Fritz Opening Trainer on the Colle quite helpful. Like Polgar's DVD on the Colle-Z, Davies goes over a bunch of games that show the ideas. The difference between the two DVDs is that Davies much more frequently explains why an early c2-c4 by White is best against Black's strongest replies.

It's hard to put a finger on the level because its focus is on the 'ideas' which is useful information at all levels.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #4 - 07/18/09 at 15:38:21  
Hello dmp4373,

I would like to know how you fit the Colle Zukertorte into your repertoire. My guess is that it is not your main opening weapon but will be used against the QID and ...?

Assuming I'm right, how would you finish this sentence? Thanks for taking the time.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #5 - 07/24/09 at 04:57:01  
Wink wrote on 07/18/09 at 15:38:21:
Hello dmp4373,

I would like to know how you fit the Colle Zukertorte into your repertoire. My guess is that it is not your main opening weapon but will be used against the QID and ...?

Assuming I'm right, how would you finish this sentence? Thanks for taking the time.


As with so many of the d-pawn special openings, the move order 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 is where they can be played most effectively.

However, I have found that in practical play, the Torre is also effective against 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6. It works well at the amateur level because King's Indian players don't have a pre-planned attack against White's triangular pawn structure. Theory says the Torre allows easy equality and that's true, Black is equal by move ten, but has no idea of how to proceed against the c3-d4-e3 structure and begins to drift. After playing a number of second and third best moves Black finds himself at a slight disadvantage by moves 15-20. At least this has been my experience in OTB tournament games below the master level.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #6 - 07/28/09 at 04:02:50  
Wink wrote on 07/18/09 at 15:38:21:
Hello dmp4373,

I would like to know how you fit the Colle Zukertorte into your repertoire. My guess is that it is not your main opening weapon but will be used against the QID and ...?

Assuming I'm right, how would you finish this sentence? Thanks for taking the time.



I play the C-Z only after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #7 - 07/28/09 at 09:20:29  
I play it only vs. 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6. (Nimzo, Bogo, Modern Benoni are ruled out)

What's the title of the book?


dmp4373 wrote on 05/08/09 at 03:30:43:
THE COLLE SYSTEM DVD by Nigel Davies is a good source for the discussion of an early c2-c4. Many times he points out how a Black set-up that works well against the standard Colle-Z is mis-aligned against the hanging pawns structure that results from White's c2-c4.

I used to hate the idea of c2-c4 because it meant I couldn't try for a Colle-Z type bind with the N on e5 supported by pawns on d4 and f4.
Then I bought a book on hanging pawns, learned their strengths and weaknesses and now play c2-c4 with confidence.


I honestly believe the Colle Zuckertort/Yusupov is the best amateur opening out there. It's easy to learn and has the soundness and power of a main line GM opening.

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W: 1d4 (2Nf3, 3c4) +dPawn
B: 1e4 French; 1d4 e6 2c4 Nf6 (NID|BID|Cat.)|2Nf3 f5 Stnw.; 1c4 e6 2Nc3 Bb4|2Nf3 Nf6 (3g3 d5|3Nc3 Bb4) +2..f5 Stnw.|2g3 Nf6 etc; 1Nf3 e6 2g3 f5 Stnw.
FIDE: 2100+, increasing
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #8 - 07/28/09 at 09:50:26  
Very interesting thread. I'm curious why Yusupov's c2--c4 Colle isn't seen more (after ...d5/...e6), seeing that quite e few modern sources think highly of it.

Standard C-Z is also very interesting, but I'd like to ask what any of you who play it may have against the equalising line of Cabrilo--Kovacevic (8 ... Qe7 9 Ne5 cd 10 ed Qc7). Or do you deviate earlier?
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #9 - 07/29/09 at 03:06:30  
Hóember Chess wrote on 07/28/09 at 09:20:29:
I play it only vs. 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6. (Nimzo, Bogo, Modern Benoni are ruled out)

What's the title of the book?


dmp4373 wrote on 05/08/09 at 03:30:43:
THE COLLE SYSTEM DVD by Nigel Davies is a good source for the discussion of an early c2-c4. Many times he points out how a Black set-up that works well against the standard Colle-Z is mis-aligned against the hanging pawns structure that results from White's c2-c4.

I used to hate the idea of c2-c4 because it meant I couldn't try for a Colle-Z type bind with the N on e5 supported by pawns on d4 and f4.
Then I bought a book on hanging pawns, learned their strengths and weaknesses and now play c2-c4 with confidence.


I honestly believe the Colle Zuckertort/Yusupov is the best amateur opening out there. It's easy to learn and has the soundness and power of a main line GM opening.



The book is: HANGING PAWNS by GM Adrian Mikhalchishin and Wit Braslawski

The introduction is an explanation of hanging pawns theory. After that comes 180 analyzed positions.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #10 - 07/29/09 at 15:08:45  
Michael Ayton wrote on 07/28/09 at 09:50:26:
Very interesting thread. I'm curious why Yusupov's c2--c4 Colle isn't seen more (after ...d5/...e6), seeing that quite e few modern sources think highly of it.

Standard C-Z is also very interesting, but I'd like to ask what any of you who play it may have against the equalising line of Cabrilo--Kovacevic (8 ... Qe7 9 Ne5 cd 10 ed Qc7). Or do you deviate earlier?


After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 d5 4.Bd3 c5 5.b3 Nc6 6.0-0 Bd6 7.Bb2 0-0 8.Nbd2 Qe7

Both Susan Polgar's and Aaron Sumerscale's DVDs don't deal with Black's threat of ... Qc7. Nigel Davies' DVD does. He says that after Black plays his Q to e7 White should consider playing c2-c4, heading for a hanging pawn position. The reason being Black's Q is not putting pressure on White's weak hanging pawns and will have to relocate, thus losing time.

Also Davies says that if Black plays ... Nbd7 instead of ... Nc6, again White should seriously consider c2-c4 for a similar reason as with the Q on e7. The N on d7 doesn't put pressure on White's hanging pawns and is mis-placed.

This seems to be the way Yusupov plays this opening. Knowing the pawn structures and remaining flexible. If Black gives him the Colle-Z bind with a N on e5 supported by pawns on d4 and f4, great. If Black tries to stop this by playing his Q to e7, then he switches to c2-c4.

One more thing, David Rudel has a very good article on the ... Qe7-c7 manuever at Chessvile. It's something like 10 pages long and it's free. He explains White's problem well.

Here's what GM Davies says about the Colle-Zukertort on his DVD.
"A very respectable opening, and yet it hasn't caught the attention of many of the world's elite." ... "I think it's a really excellent opening."
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #11 - 07/29/09 at 15:17:34  
Maybe it won't catch on at top level, as it's difficult to reach.
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 and black perhaps has better options than 3..e6.
And with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 black can remain flexible with QID type moves (..c5, ..b6) which isn't a very critical line for black to face.
Elite players are going to be happy to face these lesser options.

If playing at a lower level, or a strong GM vs lesser opponent, then these options might be viable.

Club players seem to play what white wants to see, so it will probably remain very popular at that level.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #12 - 07/29/09 at 15:34:26  
Regarding an earlier question of move order, here is what I play.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 trying for a Colle-Z
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Bg5 using the Torre against the KID
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.e3 Black's d7-d5 leaves the e5-square weak and justifies White's trying for a Colle-Z where he might get Nf3-e5 in.
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.e3 g6! Take your pick. c2-c4 can lead to a harmless Grunfeld, but Rudel's idea of 4.c4 Bg7 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.e4 is intersting. Though I'm not sure how good it actually is.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #13 - 07/30/09 at 05:23:20  
TicklyTim wrote on 07/29/09 at 15:17:34:
Maybe it won't catch on at top level, as it's difficult to reach.
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 and black perhaps has better options than 3..e6.
And with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 black can remain flexible with QID type moves (..c5, ..b6) which isn't a very critical line for black to face.
Elite players are going to be happy to face these lesser options.

If playing at a lower level, or a strong GM vs lesser opponent, then these options might be viable.

Club players seem to play what white wants to see, so it will probably remain very popular at that level.


I agree, although Yusupov has played it regularly at the 2600 level it's not likely to catch on because it's not a serious try for an opening advantage. None of the d-pawn specials are, including the London. But compared to other d-pawn specials, it's a powerhouse opening. Much better than the London which gets so much indepth coverage.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #14 - 07/30/09 at 16:41:10  
TicklyTim wrote on 07/29/09 at 15:17:34:
Maybe it won't catch on at top level, as it's difficult to reach.
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 and black perhaps has better options than 3..e6.
And with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 black can remain flexible with QID type moves (..c5, ..b6) which isn't a very critical line for black to face.
Elite players are going to be happy to face these lesser options.

If playing at a lower level, or a strong GM vs lesser opponent, then these options might be viable.

Club players seem to play what white wants to see, so it will probably remain very popular at that level.


Against ...c5/...b6 white can switch off to a Colle-Koltanowski, and black actually has significant problems to solve after the critical 8. e4!

Black's best bet (after 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. e3) is the d5/c5/Nc6, etc. set-up. Even if the white player enjoys the positions he gets they're still equal with best play.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #15 - 07/31/09 at 03:31:23  
I'm beginning to think that the CZ or Colle is an opening that can best be used inside another opening, when it is used effectively. I don't think the authors of these openings want to promulgate this because it is not in their "economic" interest to do so. When starting out, you want the skinny and not the "By the way..." version.

Here is an example, of which there are several:

Who invites whom to the Colle Party?

1.Nf3 d5 2.b3 Nf6 3.Bb2 e6 This is a transpositional structure with a Black invitation.  4.e3 Now you have a Colle or Colle Zukertorte. 4...Bd6 [4...Nbd7 5.d4 is a Colle Opening with ...Nbd7.] 5.d4 is a Colle Zukertorte Opening.

So you see, it's not as simple as it might first appear to be.

If you try to [i]crash the party with a Colle[/i] you may be disappointed. You have to wait for a proper invitation! That's my 2 cents on this one!
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #16 - 07/31/09 at 14:17:26  
BPaulsen wrote on 07/30/09 at 16:41:10:
Against ...c5/...b6 white can switch off to a Colle-Koltanowski, and black actually has significant problems to solve after the critical 8. e4!

Black's best bet (after 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. e3) is the d5/c5/Nc6, etc. set-up. Even if the white player enjoys the positions he gets they're still equal with best play.


After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 b6 I expected white to play 4.c4 to transpose into some minor QID line.
What is your critical 8.e4 after?
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #17 - 07/31/09 at 15:06:50  
I got a question for you Colle players. I am a Queen's gambit player who would like to play the Colle as an occasional surprise weapon against weaker players. If I had to buy one book, what would you suggest?
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #18 - 07/31/09 at 20:28:41  
Antillian wrote on 07/31/09 at 15:06:50:
I got a question for you Colle players. I am a Queen's gambit player who would like to play the Colle as an occasional surprise weapon against weaker players. If I had to buy one book, what would you suggest?

I no longer play OTB (USCF:1951) because of my busy work schedule but that opening is one of my favorites and still use it on ICC (DionTheGreek).

Following are my sources that use to learn the opening and from time to time I go over them and find something new and exciting.

p.s. My first book and inspiration to the opening was by Gary Lane and the latest source is the DVD by Susan Polgar.

Hope that helps.

Zuke 'Em-The Colle Zukertort Revolutionized by David I Rudel  http://www.amazon.com/Zuke-Colle-Zukertort-Revolutionized-bullet-proofed/dp/1888...

The Colle System by Nigel Davies (DVD) http://www.amazon.com/The-Colle-System-Chess-DVD/dp/3866810830/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UT...

Starting Out: d-Pawn Attacks: The Colle-Zukertort, Barry and 150 Attacks by Richard Pallister http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Out-d-Pawn-Attacks-Colle-Zukertort/dp/1857445783/...

Learn the Opening the Easy Way: The Colle-Zukertort System by Suzan Polgar (DVD) http://www.amazon.com/Learn-Opening-Easy-Way-Colle-Zukertort/dp/B000MSWTMW/ref=s...

The Ultimate Colle by Gary Lane http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Colle-Gary-Lane/dp/0713486864/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8...

A Killer Chess Opening Repertoire by Aaron Summerscale http://www.amazon.com/Killer-Chess-Opening-Repertoire-Cadogan/dp/1857445198/ref=...
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #19 - 07/31/09 at 20:42:25  
Michael Ayton wrote on 07/28/09 at 09:50:26:
Standard C-Z is also very interesting, but I'd like to ask what any of you who play it may have against the equalising line of Cabrilo--Kovacevic (8 ... Qe7 9 Ne5 cd 10 ed Qc7). Or do you deviate earlier?

Good question! I'm still using the stuff for Black that I looked at on Eric's section a while ago and still winning game after game!!
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #20 - 07/31/09 at 22:45:08  
TicklyTim wrote on 07/31/09 at 14:17:26:
BPaulsen wrote on 07/30/09 at 16:41:10:
Against ...c5/...b6 white can switch off to a Colle-Koltanowski, and black actually has significant problems to solve after the critical 8. e4!

Black's best bet (after 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. e3) is the d5/c5/Nc6, etc. set-up. Even if the white player enjoys the positions he gets they're still equal with best play.


After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 b6 I expected white to play 4.c4 to transpose into some minor QID line.
What is your critical 8.e4 after?


1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. e3 b6 4. Bd3 Bb7 5. 0-0 c5 6. Nbd2 Be7 7. c3 Nc6 8. e4!

White has seen tremendous improvements, and in the critical variation black's position is just awful (and white's score, not surprisingly, very good).
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #21 - 08/22/09 at 08:49:25  
BPaulsen wrote on 07/30/09 at 16:41:10:
TicklyTim wrote on 07/29/09 at 15:17:34:
Maybe it won't catch on at top level, as it's difficult to reach.
1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 and black perhaps has better options than 3..e6.
And with 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 black can remain flexible with QID type moves (..c5, ..b6) which isn't a very critical line for black to face.
Elite players are going to be happy to face these lesser options.

If playing at a lower level, or a strong GM vs lesser opponent, then these options might be viable.

Club players seem to play what white wants to see, so it will probably remain very popular at that level.


Against ...c5/...b6 white can switch off to a Colle-Koltanowski, and black actually has significant problems to solve after the critical 8. e4!

Black's best bet (after 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. e3) is the d5/c5/Nc6, etc. set-up. Even if the white player enjoys the positions he gets they're still equal with best play.


In this move order black's first 9 moves seemed very effective if he flicks in ...d5 to go along with ...c5 and ...b6 (maybe this is where your saying to play the Zuckertort instead, since there is an early ...d5):

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf5 3.e3 e6 4.Bd3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nbd2 Be7 7.00 b6 then 8.Ne5 Nxe5 9.fxe5 Nd7 10.f4

you can view the game Kamsky-Prie(!), which transposes into this line, at:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1066590

Palliser gives 10...c4 as a possibility for black which he says Prie used in a later game.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf5 3.e3 e6 4.Bd3 c5 5.c3 Nc6 6.Nbd2 Be7 7.dxc5 Bxc5 8.00 e5 9.e4 does not look like a good way for white to avoid transposing into this game, due to 9...dxe4 (9...Bg4 look nice for black too).

So is 8.Ne5 white's only decent move if he wants to play the Kolty-Colle against this line?
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« Last Edit: 08/23/09 at 01:09:59 by rooksway18 »  
 
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #22 - 03/26/10 at 23:58:10  
There is a new edition of Zuke 'Em - The Colle-Zukertort Revolutionized:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/188871039X?ie=UTF8&tag=asolattcheope-20&linkCod...

Several excerpts can be found in the ZukeDukes Forum: http://www.zuke-dukes.com/forum/index.php
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #23 - 03/27/10 at 00:16:18  
I have always used the line
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. Bd3 c5 5. b3 Nc6 6. Bb2 Bd6 7. O-O O-O 8. Nbd2 b6 9. Ne5 Bb7 10. a3 cxd4 11. exd4 Ne7 followed by Rc8-Rc7-Qc8-g6-Ne8-f6 etc and win game after game after game....Players with White seem to be surprized by the way they always lose and i keep hearing the same words in the post mortems :"...but my book says that this cxd4 variation is not good! I cannot understand!...." and i always explain to them: "the problem is not with the books, the problem is with the opening!". It's better to stay away from the CZ and use your time studying something else! Grin
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #24 - 05/06/10 at 13:29:40  
dmp4373 wrote on 07/29/09 at 15:08:45:
After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 d5 4.Bd3 c5 5.b3 Nc6 6.0-0 Bd6 7.Bb2 0-0 8.Nbd2 Qe7

Both Susan Polgar's and Aaron Sumerscale's DVDs don't deal with Black's threat of ... Qc7. Nigel Davies' DVD does. He says that after Black plays his Q to e7 White should consider playing c2-c4, heading for a hanging pawn position. The reason being Black's Q is not putting pressure on White's weak hanging pawns and will have to relocate, thus losing time.

Surely the queen is well placed on e7, why would she need to relocate anywhere?
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #25 - 05/06/10 at 20:08:07  
Ametanoitos wrote on 03/27/10 at 00:16:18:
I have always used the line
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. Bd3 c5 5. b3 Nc6 6. Bb2 Bd6 7. O-O O-O 8. Nbd2 b6 9. Ne5 Bb7 10. a3 cxd4 11. exd4 Ne7 followed by Rc8-Rc7-Qc8-g6-Ne8-f6 etc and win game after game after game....Players with White seem to be surprized by the way they always lose and i keep hearing the same words in the post mortems :"...but my book says that this cxd4 variation is not good! I cannot understand!...." and i always explain to them: "the problem is not with the books, the problem is with the opening!". It's better to stay away from the CZ and use your time studying something else! Grin


Interesting line although I'd suggest that's just equal, especially as it is a reversed QID: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6 4.e3 Bb7 5.Bd3 d5 6.cxd5 exd5 7.O-O Bd6 8.Nc3 O-O 9.b3 a6 10.Bb2 Nbd7 11.Rc1 Qe7 12.Ne2 Ne4

The funny thing is that white is often recommended to transpose from the Colle Zukertort to the 4 e3 QID unless black is aiming for this "Colle Zukertort" setup which white then avoids i.e.

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3 b6 4.Bd3 Bb7 5.O-O d5
    ( 5...c5 6.c4 $5 )
    ( 5...Be7 6.c4 )
6.b3
    ( 6.c4 Bd6 7 cxd5 exd5 { etc transposes to the above line which is considered absolutely fine for black.} )

Although I guess if you really are happy with Black's position in that line you should be playing the 4 e3 QID as much as possible as white has decent chances for an advantage if black avoids this setup!

But on the other hand, black QID players will handle the game in a more balanced way than white C-Z players throwing everything at the queenside.
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #26 - 05/07/10 at 15:27:08  
Ametanoitos wrote on 03/27/10 at 00:16:18:
I have always used the line
1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. Bd3 c5 5. b3 Nc6 6. Bb2 Bd6 7. O-O O-O 8. Nbd2 b6 9. Ne5 Bb7 10. a3 cxd4 11. exd4 Ne7 followed by Rc8-Rc7-Qc8-g6-Ne8-f6 etc and win game after game after game....Players with White seem to be surprized by the way they always lose

I agree with Pantu that this is only equal, of course, but it does illustrate the importance of having a coherent plan in chess. Smiley
I annotated a couple of recent Colle games of mine on Eric's April update, and also completely updated the playable Colle eBook! Smiley
Get it while it's hot! Wink
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Re: Yusupov's Colle
Reply #27 - 05/10/10 at 22:59:40  
Yes, of course this is equal. I don't claim an advantage for Black here. I have never faced the Colle by a stronger opponent. I always won lower rated players but everytime quite easy it's the truth. Two of them have allowed the exch sac with Rxc2 because they thought it just gives away material.
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