Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Best Defense against an English Opening (Read 50437 times)
HoemberChess
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 512
Location: Lake d4 on Planet Chess
Joined: 10/08/07
Gender: Male
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #26 - 10/23/09 at 05:44:31
Post Tools
After 1.c4 e5
2.Nf3 is a "?"-move, no matter how these games continued.

Uruk wrote on 10/22/09 at 23:55:06:
HoemberChess wrote on 10/22/09 at 18:56:57:

But after 1.c4 e5 there is no 2.Nf3 any more, while after 1.c4 c5 you can still move either knight.


Well well well

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1007101
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032362

  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
Back to top
WWWGTalk  
IP Logged
 
Uruk
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 351
Joined: 02/03/09
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #25 - 10/22/09 at 23:55:06
Post Tools
HoemberChess wrote on 10/22/09 at 18:56:57:

But after 1.c4 e5 there is no 2.Nf3 any more, while after 1.c4 c5 you can still move either knight.


Well well well

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1007101
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1032362
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
alumbrado
God Member
*****
Offline


Esse quam videri bonus
malebo

Posts: 1418
Location: London
Joined: 02/17/03
Gender: Male
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #24 - 10/22/09 at 21:23:28
Post Tools
I think probably what moahunter is trying to say is that 4...d5 isn't a great idea after 4.e3, which I would agree with.
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4989
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #23 - 10/22/09 at 19:19:51
Post Tools
I don't know where the idea would come from that the 4. e3 Four Knights English is "not that good" for Black (meaning he shouldn't be able to equalize?), or that 4. e3 is better than 4. g3.

I wonder if the founders of the Informant in some sense agreed with Markovich, since they put 1. c4 c5 after 1. c4 e5 in their code system (it's a principle of the system that main lines come last).
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HoemberChess
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 512
Location: Lake d4 on Planet Chess
Joined: 10/08/07
Gender: Male
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #22 - 10/22/09 at 18:56:57
Post Tools
Nope. Cheesy But after 1.c4 e5 there is no 2.Nf3 any more, while after 1.c4 c5 you can still move either knight.
1..e5 has more influence on the center and finally, it opens up a diagonal for a bishop.

Uruk wrote on 10/06/09 at 19:07:08:
HoemberChess wrote on 10/06/09 at 06:52:45:
Markovich wrote on 10/04/09 at 02:53:53:
Personally, I think that 1...c5 is the most principled answer.  It depends on your principles, I suppose.


1..e5 prevents more than 1..c5.


Yes, Markovich forgot the uber-critical square f4.

  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
Back to top
WWWGTalk  
IP Logged
 
moahunter
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 59
Joined: 05/10/09
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #21 - 10/22/09 at 18:46:15
Post Tools
Quote:
tbh. the reversed sicilian is the ultimate answer to 1.c4,
but you need to know the opening well.

It depends, I don't think the reversed sicilian is that good if white does not play g3 - e.g. an e3 4 knights.

I have noticed OTB people play differently against the English, than in correspondence. In correspondence many players will play e5, but OTB, I find a lot of players try to get into their d4 defence (makes sense, for memory reasons). In this respect, I think moves like c6, e6, and g6 are all very good reponses to c4, and for many players who want to be able to transpose if they can, will be the best.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Uruk
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 351
Joined: 02/03/09
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #20 - 10/06/09 at 19:07:08
Post Tools
HoemberChess wrote on 10/06/09 at 06:52:45:
Markovich wrote on 10/04/09 at 02:53:53:
Personally, I think that 1...c5 is the most principled answer.  It depends on your principles, I suppose.


1..e5 prevents more than 1..c5.


Yes, Markovich forgot the uber-critical square f4.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Antillian
God Member
*****
Offline


Brilliance without dazzle!

Posts: 1757
Joined: 01/05/03
Gender: Male
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #19 - 10/06/09 at 19:04:36
Post Tools
HoemberChess wrote on 10/06/09 at 06:52:45:
Markovich wrote on 10/04/09 at 02:53:53:
Personally, I think that 1...c5 is the most principled answer.  It depends on your principles, I suppose.


1..e5 prevents more than 1..c5.


These things can be debated ad infinitum. It really comes down to personal preference more than anything else.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
HoemberChess
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 512
Location: Lake d4 on Planet Chess
Joined: 10/08/07
Gender: Male
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #18 - 10/06/09 at 06:52:45
Post Tools
Markovich wrote on 10/04/09 at 02:53:53:
Personally, I think that 1...c5 is the most principled answer.  It depends on your principles, I suppose.


1..e5 prevents more than 1..c5.
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
Back to top
WWWGTalk  
IP Logged
 
Alluren
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 33
Joined: 04/21/08
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #17 - 10/05/09 at 00:44:03
Post Tools
I also hate to face 1. c4, so an intresting thing to do is to watch the "specialists" play against the system they like. This is how I found my answer to 1.c4. I took up what Davies is playing against the english  Tongue
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #16 - 10/04/09 at 02:53:53
Post Tools
Personally, I think that 1...c5 is the most principled answer.  It depends on your principles, I suppose.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ayen
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 9
Joined: 09/26/09
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #15 - 10/03/09 at 03:46:39
Post Tools
I think the DVD chess fritz trainer titled The secrets of champions by Adrian Mi... err i forgot the exact spelling of his surname.  Anyway, i think it would immensely benefit all English Openings enthusiast, i think with Flank Opening subscribe from chesspublishing.com and this DVD any one will soon become an English Opening experts.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
battleangel
Ex Member
*



Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #14 - 10/02/09 at 18:54:58
Post Tools
tbh. the reversed sicilian is the ultimate answer to 1.c4,
but you need to know the opening well.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10778
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #13 - 10/02/09 at 04:07:31
Post Tools
A stronger player than all of us - GM Mednis - agrees completely. Equalizing after 1.c4 is no less an achievement than after 1.d4 and 1.e4. Creating winning chances is also equally problematic.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Best Defense against an English Opening
Reply #12 - 10/01/09 at 17:02:24
Post Tools
Antillian wrote on 10/01/09 at 14:18:23:
English players hate to face 1...e5?  Shocked

Mihael Marin tells an interesting anecdote in his new book: "Grandmaster Repertoire 3" about players often specifically preparing 1..e5 against him to punish his English opening. Almost invariably, he said he triumphed. 


Well can't talk with any authority about play at Marin's level, but my view is that if you plan to 'punish' the English you are setting yourself up for problems.  1.c4 is a perfectly fine first move, I believe we would all admit.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo