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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help in the closed sicilian (Read 56986 times)
Stefan Buecker
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #16 - 02/18/10 at 14:55:50
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Of course 2...a6 avoids some lines (just as 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 a6 avoids the Ruy Lopez), but you give White a pleasant choice: (a) to play 3.a4, and then in 99% of the cases follow his usual Anti-Sicilian scheme, or (b) accept the invitation to 2...a6 & b5, which isn't too bad either. Closed Sicilian Players know their set-ups, und including a6/a4 is rarely a big issue. 
  
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Stigma
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #15 - 02/18/10 at 14:00:12
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:27:10:
You mean, the bishop which never goes to b5 anyway? The problem with Palliser's recommendation of 2...a6 isn't that the move were bad. The problem is that after 3.a4 Black has to know another set-up, say e7-e6. In my opinion 2...e6 isn't worse than 2...a6 3.a4 e6, so why should you study 2...a6? 


That's obviously wrong. The insertion of ...a6 and a4 avoids all GP Attack lines with Bb5 and the so-called "Modern Grand Prix" 2...Nc6 3.Bb5. So while the 2...a6 may not bother a Closed Sicilian (with g3) player, it's more of a problem for Grand Prix players, which there are a lot of on club level.
  

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Schaakhamster
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #14 - 02/18/10 at 13:57:56
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:27:10:
Schaakhamster wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:07:26:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 12:40:54:
In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.


First thought: does it improve white's chances? Black can for instance just play 3. ... e6 and go for d5. I fail to see what a4 does for white in that instance. a6 at least keeps a bishop out of Bb5.

You mean, the bishop which never goes to b5 anyway? The problem with Palliser's recommendation of 2...a6 isn't that the move were bad. The problem is that after 3.a4 Black has to know another set-up, say e7-e6. In my opinion 2...e6 isn't worse than 2...a6 3.a4 e6, so why should you study 2...a6? 


One of the attractions of 2. ... a6 is that you keep the option of your regular sicilian open, I'll admit that. But I think that black can profit from a4 by choosing a set-up where a4 doesn't matter and a6 does;

Compare 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 e6 3. f4  Nc6 4. Nf3 d5 5. Bb5 (most played in my database) with 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. f4  Nc6 5. Nf3 d5 .

In the closed sicilian I do not see anything wrong with 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. g3  d5 ( One could argue that 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. g3  e6 4. Bg2 is worse for black as het can't push d5 through). Perhaps 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. g3  b5 is stronger for black. 

For the rest:  1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. g3  d5 isn't that difficult to play.   

The only benefit of 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4 is to make it harder for black to keep open the option of reaching his favorite open sicilian. White could play something like 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. Nf3 but I hardly call that frightening
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #13 - 02/18/10 at 13:27:10
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Schaakhamster wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:07:26:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 12:40:54:
In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.


First thought: does it improve white's chances? Black can for instance just play 3. ... e6 and go for d5. I fail to see what a4 does for white in that instance. a6 at least keeps a bishop out of Bb5.

You mean, the bishop which never goes to b5 anyway? The problem with Palliser's recommendation of 2...a6 isn't that the move were bad. The problem is that after 3.a4 Black has to know another set-up, say e7-e6. In my opinion 2...e6 isn't worse than 2...a6 3.a4 e6, so why should you study 2...a6? 
  
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parisestmagique
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #12 - 02/18/10 at 13:07:48
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I have the same opinion, after a6 a4! and White continue his usual formation.
  
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Schaakhamster
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #11 - 02/18/10 at 13:07:26
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Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 12:40:54:
In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.


First thought: does it improve white's chances? Black can for instance just play 3. ... e6 and go for d5. I fail to see what a4 does for white in that instance. a6 at least keeps a bishop out of Bb5.
  
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Stefan Buecker
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #10 - 02/18/10 at 12:40:54
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In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.
  
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Schaakhamster
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #9 - 02/18/10 at 12:24:43
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I'm a fan of a6 in the closed sicilian, especially when combined with e6. White doesn't seem to be able to profit from such a move. 

Playing g6 against for instance the GP-attack never looked right to me. I'm totally willing to accept that from a theoretical standpoint black is fine. But from the practical side I find the thought of pawn on f4 and g6 a bit unnerving and have seen too many beating by simple cavemanattacks...
  
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #8 - 02/18/10 at 08:20:21
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Pallisers 2..a6!? is very interesting. The closed sicilian must be taken seriously. Look what happened to Shirov recently who lost against the closed sicilian against a 12(!!) year old indian boy after 16 (!!) moves!!

Sharma,Pranav - Shirov,Alexei [B26]
Ottawa Simul, 02.2010
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 d6 6.Be3 Rb8 7.f4 b5 8.Qc1 b4 9.Nce2 e5 10.Nf3 Nge7 11.f5 gxf5 12.Bh6 Bxh6 13.Qxh6 fxe4 14.Ng5 exd3 15.Qg7







15...Rg8?? After 15...Kd7 Black is clearly better. 16.Bxc6+ and since White is thratening mate on f7: 1-0.
Grin
  

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TN
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #7 - 01/06/10 at 06:13:08
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There are several good options, but I suggest 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 d6 followed by ...e5/...Nge7/...0-0 against most moves. It has a decent reputation, and you achieve the same types of positions in each instance. Against 3.Nf3, you can avoid a non-Najdorf Open Sicilian by playing 3...e5 - the positions are a bit dry but very solid. 

I also quite like 2...a6, but find the 3.f4 b5 4.Nf3 Bb7 5.d3 e6 6.g4!? variation tricky to face since White's attacking plans are quite obvious.
  

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Stigma
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #6 - 12/23/09 at 16:36:23
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The downside to 2.Nc3 Nc6 is that White players are best prepared for and often hoping for this. Imho this fact makes it less of a winning try in OTB Chess.

I'm very happy I found 2...a6 and I think it's an excellent winning try, because it give White nonstandard problems to solve whether he's a Closed or GPA player. 2...a6 also connects with the Najdorf or the Kan, arguably Black's two best winning tries in the Open Sicilian anyway, if White goes for a transposition with 3.Nf3 or 3.Nge2.

2...a6 can even be tried by those who don't have the Najdorf or the Kan in their repertoire. Meet 3.Nf3 with either: 

- Kurajica's 3..b5 4.d4 e6!? as covered in the O'Kelly chapter of Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian, or 

- 3...b5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e6 6.Bd3 Bb7!? and 7...Nc6, a newly popluar line that is covered very well on ChessPublishing. (Yes, this is a line of the Kan, but Black has avoided the two other critical main lines 5.Bd3 and 5.c4).
  

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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #5 - 12/23/09 at 16:00:07
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Alekhine1988 wrote on 12/19/09 at 20:05:48:


Thanks for your post!
But 2. ...e6 is no option for me, because I play the Najdorf Sicilian (I forgot to say that in my first post, sorry)


If you're a Najdorf player, I strongly recommend you meet 2.Nc3 with 2...a6.  Palliser treats this very well in his excellent anti-anti-Sicilian book.

Personally I think that anyone who plays 2...Nc6 against 2.Nf3 should play it also against 2.Nc3, since I think this is Black's best way to play for a win against the Closed.  As observed, 2...e6 is strong and must be the preferred move for those who play 2...e6 against 2.Nf3, but I think it's slightly less good as a winning try.

You have to bear in mind also that White may not embark upon a Closed as such and may instead go for a Grand Prix Attack.
  

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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #4 - 12/19/09 at 21:37:26
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As so often with such questions, one might wonder what your playing level is, what relevant stuff you have looked at in books, etc.  I can say that I tend to think of ...e5 (à la Botvinnik) as a somewhat easier approach than ...e6, and still quite respected.  The Closed Sicilian/English chapter of Andrew Soltis's "Pawn Structure Chess," as well as a reference like ECO, should be helpful.  One form of it was just addressed in David Vigorito's Anti-Sicilian update.
  
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #3 - 12/19/09 at 21:04:09
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That's only true if you play the Najdorf with 6...e5 (if possible). If you play the Najdorf in Scheveninger style you can transpose and avoid the Keres Attack by postponing ...Nf6. Let me assume the first.

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.g3 Nc6 (g6 4.Nge2 and 5.d4) 4.Bg2 g6 5.d3 Bg7 6.f4/6.Be3 Rb8!? is one option. 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.g3 e6 another.
  

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Alekhine1988
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Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #2 - 12/19/09 at 20:05:48
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kylemeister wrote on 12/19/09 at 18:25:37:
Well, 2...e6 is a rather direct and classical approach which has long been very respected; a couple of model games are Spassky-Kortchnoi and Spassky-Kasparov (about 1968 and 1982 respectively).  There is however the issue of whether it harmonizes with your intended type of open Sicilian, in case White plays 3. Nf3.


Thanks for your post!
But 2. ...e6 is no option for me, because I play the Najdorf Sicilian (I forgot to say that in my first post, sorry)
  

Greetings from Germany!
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