Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
Opening TheoryOpening Theory
 
  Theory HomeHelpSearchLoginRegister  
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print
Help in the closed sicilian (Read 3340 times)
Alekhine1988
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Hi!

Posts: 2
Germany
Gender: male
Help in the closed sicilian
12/19/09 at 18:01:49
 
Hello everybody!

I am searching for an easy System vs the closed Sicilian, I have played this main line stuff ( Nc6,g6,Bg7,e6,d6,etc) but I had quite bad results with it, so now I am searching for a new way for black to fight against the closed sicilian. I have to admit, I understood the positions in the closed sicilian not good, how can I change that? What are good games to learn from?
I am looking forward to any suggestions

Regards Alekhine1988
Back to top
 

Greetings from Germany!
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline


Insert witty and/or pithy
saying here

Posts: 2177
USA
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #1 - 12/19/09 at 18:25:37
 
Well, 2...e6 is a rather direct and classical approach which has long been very respected; a couple of model games are Spassky-Kortchnoi and Spassky-Kasparov (about 1968 and 1982 respectively).  There is however the issue of whether it harmonizes with your intended type of open Sicilian, in case White plays 3. Nf3.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Alekhine1988
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Hi!

Posts: 2
Germany
Gender: male
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #2 - 12/19/09 at 20:05:48
 
kylemeister wrote on 12/19/09 at 18:25:37:
Well, 2...e6 is a rather direct and classical approach which has long been very respected; a couple of model games are Spassky-Kortchnoi and Spassky-Kasparov (about 1968 and 1982 respectively).  There is however the issue of whether it harmonizes with your intended type of open Sicilian, in case White plays 3. Nf3.


Thanks for your post!
But 2. ...e6 is no option for me, because I play the Najdorf Sicilian (I forgot to say that in my first post, sorry)
Back to top
 

Greetings from Germany!
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 7595
Moengo
Gender: male
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #3 - 12/19/09 at 21:04:09
 
That's only true if you play the Najdorf with 6...e5 (if possible). If you play the Najdorf in Scheveninger style you can transpose and avoid the Keres Attack by postponing ...Nf6. Let me assume the first.

1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 d6 3.g3 Nc6 (g6 4.Nge2 and 5.d4) 4.Bg2 g6 5.d3 Bg7 6.f4/6.Be3 Rb8!? is one option. 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.g3 e6 another.
Back to top
 

Human civilization is the history of 3000 years of indigestion.
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline


Insert witty and/or pithy
saying here

Posts: 2177
USA
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #4 - 12/19/09 at 21:37:26
 
As so often with such questions, one might wonder what your playing level is, what relevant stuff you have looked at in books, etc.  I can say that I tend to think of ...e5 (à la Botvinnik) as a somewhat easier approach than ...e6, and still quite respected.  The Closed Sicilian/English chapter of Andrew Soltis's "Pawn Structure Chess," as well as a reference like ECO, should be helpful.  One form of it was just addressed in David Vigorito's Anti-Sicilian update.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline


Doh!  Can I take that
back?

Posts: 4376
Columbus, Ohio
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #5 - 12/23/09 at 16:00:07
 
Alekhine1988 wrote on 12/19/09 at 20:05:48:
Thanks for your post!
But 2. ...e6 is no option for me, because I play the Najdorf Sicilian (I forgot to say that in my first post, sorry)


If you're a Najdorf player, I strongly recommend you meet 2.Nc3 with 2...a6.  Palliser treats this very well in his excellent anti-anti-Sicilian book.

Personally I think that anyone who plays 2...Nc6 against 2.Nf3 should play it also against 2.Nc3, since I think this is Black's best way to play for a win against the Closed.  As observed, 2...e6 is strong and must be the preferred move for those who play 2...e6 against 2.Nf3, but I think it's slightly less good as a winning try.

You have to bear in mind also that White may not embark upon a Closed as such and may instead go for a Grand Prix Attack.
Back to top
 

The Great Oz has spoken!
 
IP Logged
 
Stigma
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 1066
Gender: male
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #6 - 12/23/09 at 16:36:23
 
The downside to 2.Nc3 Nc6 is that White players are best prepared for and often hoping for this. Imho this fact makes it less of a winning try in OTB Chess.

I'm very happy I found 2...a6 and I think it's an excellent winning try, because it give White nonstandard problems to solve whether he's a Closed or GPA player. 2...a6 also connects with the Najdorf or the Kan, arguably Black's two best winning tries in the Open Sicilian anyway, if White goes for a transposition with 3.Nf3 or 3.Nge2.

2...a6 can even be tried by those who don't have the Najdorf or the Kan in their repertoire. Meet 3.Nf3 with either:

- Kurajica's 3..b5 4.d4 e6!? as covered in the O'Kelly chapter of Dangerous Weapons: The Sicilian, or

- 3...b5 4.d4 cxd4 5.Nxd4 e6 6.Bd3 Bb7!? and 7...Nc6, a newly popluar line that is covered very well on ChessPublishing. (Yes, this is a line of the Kan, but Black has avoided the two other critical main lines 5.Bd3 and 5.c4).
Back to top
 

Improvement starts at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
 
IP Logged
 
TN
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 1540
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #7 - 01/06/10 at 06:13:08
 
There are several good options, but I suggest 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 d6 followed by ...e5/...Nge7/...0-0 against most moves. It has a decent reputation, and you achieve the same types of positions in each instance. Against 3.Nf3, you can avoid a non-Najdorf Open Sicilian by playing 3...e5 - the positions are a bit dry but very solid.

I also quite like 2...a6, but find the 3.f4 b5 4.Nf3 Bb7 5.d3 e6 6.g4!? variation tricky to face since White's attacking plans are quite obvious.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Bogojump
Junior Member
**
Offline


FreeBSD is the best  www.freebsd.org

Posts: 52
Europe
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #8 - 02/18/10 at 08:20:21
 
Pallisers 2..a6!? is very interesting. The closed sicilian must be taken seriously. Look what happened to Shirov recently who lost against the closed sicilian against a 12(!!) year old indian boy after 16 (!!) moves!!

Sharma,Pranav - Shirov,Alexei [B26]
Ottawa Simul, 02.2010
1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.g3 g6 4.Bg2 Bg7 5.d3 d6 6.Be3 Rb8 7.f4 b5 8.Qc1 b4 9.Nce2 e5 10.Nf3 Nge7 11.f5 gxf5 12.Bh6 Bxh6 13.Qxh6 fxe4 14.Ng5 exd3 15.Qg7


...




15...Rg8?? After 15...Kd7 Black is clearly better. 16.Bxc6+ and since White is thratening mate on f7: 1-0.
Grin
Back to top
 

1...e5   "Probably the best reply." (to 1.e4)
José Raul Capablanca
 
IP Logged
 
Schaakhamster
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 529
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #9 - 02/18/10 at 12:24:43
 
I'm a fan of a6 in the closed sicilian, especially when combined with e6. White doesn't seem to be able to profit from such a move.

Playing g6 against for instance the GP-attack never looked right to me. I'm totally willing to accept that from a theoretical standpoint black is fine. But from the practical side I find the thought of pawn on f4 and g6 a bit unnerving and have seen too many beating by simple cavemanattacks...
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 514
Germany
Gender: male
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #10 - 02/18/10 at 12:40:54
 
In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Schaakhamster
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 529
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #11 - 02/18/10 at 13:07:26
 
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 12:40:54:
In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.


First thought: does it improve white's chances? Black can for instance just play 3. ... e6 and go for d5. I fail to see what a4 does for white in that instance. a6 at least keeps a bishop out of Bb5.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
parisestmagique
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 403
paris
Gender: male
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #12 - 02/18/10 at 13:07:48
 
I have the same opinion, after a6 a4! and White continue his usual formation.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Stefan Buecker
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 514
Germany
Gender: male
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #13 - 02/18/10 at 13:27:10
 
Schaakhamster wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:07:26:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 12:40:54:
In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.


First thought: does it improve white's chances? Black can for instance just play 3. ... e6 and go for d5. I fail to see what a4 does for white in that instance. a6 at least keeps a bishop out of Bb5.

You mean, the bishop which never goes to b5 anyway? The problem with Palliser's recommendation of 2...a6 isn't that the move were bad. The problem is that after 3.a4 Black has to know another set-up, say e7-e6. In my opinion 2...e6 isn't worse than 2...a6 3.a4 e6, so why should you study 2...a6? 
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Schaakhamster
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 529
Re: Help in the closed sicilian
Reply #14 - 02/18/10 at 13:57:56
 
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:27:10:
Schaakhamster wrote on 02/18/10 at 13:07:26:
Stefan Buecker wrote on 02/18/10 at 12:40:54:
In a Chesscafe article, I wrote on 1.e4 c5 2.Nc3 a6 3.a4. Palliser's discussion of the last move isn't very convincing. I fail to see how moving both a-pawns improves Black's chances in a Closed Sicilian.


First thought: does it improve white's chances? Black can for instance just play 3. ... e6 and go for d5. I fail to see what a4 does for white in that instance. a6 at least keeps a bishop out of Bb5.

You mean, the bishop which never goes to b5 anyway? The problem with Palliser's recommendation of 2...a6 isn't that the move were bad. The problem is that after 3.a4 Black has to know another set-up, say e7-e6. In my opinion 2...e6 isn't worse than 2...a6 3.a4 e6, so why should you study 2...a6? 


One of the attractions of 2. ... a6 is that you keep the option of your regular sicilian open, I'll admit that. But I think that black can profit from a4 by choosing a set-up where a4 doesn't matter and a6 does;

Compare 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 e6 3. f4  Nc6 4. Nf3 d5 5. Bb5 (most played in my database) with 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. f4  Nc6 5. Nf3 d5 .

In the closed sicilian I do not see anything wrong with 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. g3  d5 ( One could argue that 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. g3  e6 4. Bg2 is worse for black as het can't push d5 through). Perhaps 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. g3  b5 is stronger for black.

For the rest:  1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. g3  d5 isn't that difficult to play.   

The only benefit of 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4 is to make it harder for black to keep open the option of reaching his favorite open sicilian. White could play something like 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 a6 3. a4  e6 4. Nf3 but I hardly call that frightening
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4
Send Topic Print