MNb wrote on 01/29/11 at 12:05:55:


If Baeron has the Dutch and French already in his repertoire I think the costs to avoid the Queens-pawn-specials are very low. 

My point has been to show a strategy to get NID/QID/Queens-Pawn-specials into a rep step by step with the help of the 1.d4 e6 move order. 
NID/QID is a very big complex. Therefore I think it makes sense to concentrate on this complex first and 
don't waste time with Queens-Pawn-specials, if they can be avoided.  
In a second step it makes of course much sense to incorporate the Queens-Pawn-specials into the repertoire (you gain flexibility etc.). 

I suggest another strategy to incorporate NID/QID/
Queens-Pawn-specials step by step without using the Dutch: 
1) Learn a line of the Bg5-QGD (Lasker or Orthodox), 
Bf4-QGD and a line against the Catalan.  
2) Then concentrate on the Nimzo.  
Play 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 d5. 

Play 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bf4 Bd6 
                                3.e3 Nf6 4.Bd3 g6 
These are quick and not so common solutions. 
                           
3) Learn the QID and 
switch to 1.d4 e6 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nf3 b6 

4) Learn the Tromp and play 
NID/QID with 1...Nf6 moveorder.  
But play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.c4 e6; 
3.Bf4 c5, 
3.Bg5 Ne4, 
3.e3 Bf5 
(or 3...c6 if you prefer Bg4-lines against the Slow Slav 
- 4.h3!?).  
3.g3 Bf5.  
These lines are easier to learn 
and to play than the Queens-Pawn-Specials 
after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6.  
Details see in Cox' book. 
(Since Avrukh has suggested the Slow Slav in his 
monumental 1.d4 book it is perhaps more practical to stick to 3.e3 e6 4.Bd3 g6.)  

Btw I think 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5 e6 as suggested by 
Cox makes it too easy for White to bail out with e3 etc. 
More challenging for both player are 2...c5 and 2...d5 
(this has been treated by Eric Prie in the Queens-Pawn-Specials section).  
of ChessPub. 

5) Learn the Queens-Pawn-Specials  after 
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6. 
Don't forget 3.g3. The Catalan is now fashionable 
at all levels! This move-order could trick you into 
Catalan or QID lines which you don't like. 
3...b5 is an independent solution suggested by 
Cox, 
which has been  investigated by Palliser in ChessPub 
(section Queens-Pawn-Specials) recently. 

I think this approach makes more sense than to 
include NID/QID/Nf6-e6-Queens-Pawn-Specials into 
your rep with one stroke. 
If you have the QGD in your rep you can play the man:  
1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 if you expect Queens-Pawn-specials, 
but 2...e6 if you expect 3.c4. 

Volcanor wrote on 08/31/10 at 12:55:26:


Actually, it is covered in Cox's book, Chapter 10: 

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.g3 b5

Moskalenko has an interesting section in Revolutionize Your Chess, Chapter 6-An Early Middlegame: The Bishop Sortie Bg5/Bf4, Part 2-A Dynamic Set-up vs the London System and the Torre Attack.

 

emary wrote on 01/29/11 at 00:59:41:

2...f5 invites the main lines of the Classical Dutch, Stonewall etcetera, which requires much more work than the d-Pawn Specials after 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 e6. I don't see how this appeals to players of the NID/QID. What you suggest is maintaining two repertoires and giving White the choice which one to play.
Frankly I find such attempts to avoid the London and the Torre at all costs rather lame.
But I admit: if Baeron intends to keep playing the Dutch against the English your suggestion makes a lot of sense.

The book is "Dealing with d4 deviations" by John Cox. It's 5 years old, but it's the best black repertoire you'll get for playing against deviation from NID/QID. But keep in mind that it does not cover 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3. Everything else is covered, and Cox promotes variations generating imbalances as much as possible.

Hi!

I'm trying to include the QID/NID complex in my repertoire. At my level (2100) I'm going to meet quite a few d-pawn specials. Are there any good resources out there dealing with these considering that I'm already committed to playing 2... e6? I'm an absolute d-pawn-special-newbie, as I usually play the Dutch.
I also play the French so a transposition into it would be fine.

Thanks for any help!