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Normal Topic C55: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives (Read 5980 times)
kylemeister
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Re: C55: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
Reply #7 - 05/19/12 at 16:07:20
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OT, 7...Ne7 reminded me of 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 Ne7!?.  I think Markovich has mentioned that one too, but I remember it from the book I learned chess from ("Chess in 30 Minutes"), where it featured in one of the "illustrative games."
  
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MarkG
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Re: C55: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
Reply #6 - 05/19/12 at 15:54:40
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Markovich wrote on 05/19/12 at 00:22:05:
This is not a method of play that people who understand this game actually use.  It comes up because some people forget, or don't know, that 4...Nxe4 is possible.  You see this in scholastic chess so much, it's a joke. I don't agree that Black is White after that, but it does solve all Black's problems.

There is one way for White to play this for a win, and that is 4...Nxe4 5.0-0,  But at best White has adequate comp, nothing more.  There is one quite devilish possibility that White should be aware of if he intends to play this in the normal way: 4...Ne4 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 Ne7!?


A bigger joke is how often this happens against supposedly strong opposition. Fully a third of my online blitz games that reach the  Four Knights position continue 4.Bc4 (often after some thought). I have also got it over the board against a USCF rating > 2000.

Now, I actually reach this via a transposition from the Alekhine 1.e4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e5! etc, so I suppose people who allow this have just been move-ordered into an unfamiliar position. More generally though, I think 4.Bc4 shows a lack of familiarity with Open Games, since the theme is common in many lines after 1.e4 e5. In my view, unless the Vienna or 4 Knights are in your repertoire against 1...e5 then playing 2.Nc3 against the Alekhine is simply a mistake. This is a good example of the fundamental importance of 1.e4 e5 to a real chess education.

Thanks for the 7...Ne7!? suggestion. I don't think I have seen that before or, if I have, I have forgotten it. Regardless of its objective value, the psychological effect on top of 4...Nxe4 would be considerable. Black is totally running the game on move 7!
  
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Markovich
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Re: C55: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
Reply #5 - 05/19/12 at 00:22:05
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This is not a method of play that people who understand this game actually use.  It comes up because some people forget, or don't know, that 4...Nxe4 is possible.  You see this in scholastic chess so much, it's a joke. I don't agree that Black is White after that, but it does solve all Black's problems.

There is one way for White to play this for a win, and that is 4...Nxe4 5.0-0,  But at best White has adequate comp, nothing more.  There is one quite devilish possibility that White should be aware of if he intends to play this in the normal way: 4...Ne4 5.Nxe4 d5 6.Bd3 dxe4 7.Bxe4 Ne7!?
  

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Re: C55: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
Reply #4 - 05/18/12 at 18:19:08
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to dfan... no, i come across this as black. not as White.
  
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Re: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
Reply #3 - 05/18/12 at 13:44:24
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This is actually a decent line for White, because the universal recommendation for Black gives White a slight edge. But if Black knows what he is doing, he is the one who is a bit better.
  

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Re: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
Reply #2 - 05/18/12 at 13:22:17
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This in an excellent way to change your color from white to black in just four moves.
  
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dfan
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Re: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
Reply #1 - 05/18/12 at 12:42:56
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You want to play this as White? I do not recommend it. Black achieves instant equality and has excellent results in practice (in my database, White scores a horrific 30.7% after 4...Nxe4, compared to his usual 54% or so). The one chance to get a decent game appears to be to play 5.0-0 and treat it as a gambit, but if you want to play in that style there are better lines.
  
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C55: Two Knights Defence: 4th Move Alternatives
05/18/12 at 10:31:00
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Hello i am intersted in the following variation: 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bc4 Nxe4.

From games ive played over it appears its mostly a opening that white uses at club levels, though i have found some games at master level and a few at GM level where white used this in a rapid or blitz games.  Any pointers on this system?  im looking a bit beyond the opening phase in this line now and looking into typical middlegame configurations/pieces/pawn structures that arise from it.  Any thoughts on this thread would be intersting.
« Last Edit: 05/18/12 at 13:47:38 by Smyslov_Fan »  
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