https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?board=classick Classical - ChessPub Forum en-us ChessPub Forum Wed, 19 Aug 2026 17:41:04 GMT http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss 30 https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1249511251 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1249511251 Tue, 13 May 2025 12:46:18 GMT Nice to see this thread pop up and take a trip down memory lane. Mark is sorely missed around here, I opine!  <img rel=";D" src="https://www.chesspub.com/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif" alt="Grin" title="Grin" /> <img rel="&#58;'&#40;" src="https://www.chesspub.com/yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/cry.gif" alt="Cry" title="Cry" /> https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1239936176 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1239936176 Mon, 18 Mar 2024 15:26:17 GMT <a href="https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1239936176/0#0">TopNotch wrote</a> on 04/17/09 at 02:42:55:<br /><div id="5C677846677C6B600800"><span>Fide Master vs Toppy - Rapid Tourney (E94) 12/04/09</span><!--color--><br /><br /><b>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nbd7 8.Be3 Re8 9.d5 Nh5</b> </div><!--5C677846677C6B600800--><br /><br />This position, and others arising after 7...Nbd7, are covered in the latest (March 2024) issue of Chesspublishing. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1702240214 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1702240214 Sun, 10 Dec 2023 20:30:14 GMT I see that it involves a rapid game Van Wely-Werle in the Classical KID with 6...e5 7. 0-0 Nbd7 8. Qc2. I'm curious as to, say, what the next few moves were.<br /><br />As far as I recall Werle and the KID, he was on the white side many times, and perhaps never Black.<br /><br />By the way, 8. Qc2 is one of the old book moves. The perhaps inevitable ancient game which stuck in my memory in this case is Ftacnik-Nunn, used in the latter's <i>Secrets of Grandmaster Play</i>. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1698445202 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1698445202 Mon, 30 Oct 2023 17:53:08 GMT <a href="https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1698445202/1#1">FreeRepublic wrote</a> on 10/28/23 at 00:12:08:<br /><div id="4571666651667376616F6A600301">For a while, CI was bundling 4 Chess Iinformants to download at half price. Rather than getting your download CI when it came out, you would get a year's worrth of CIs after about one year. I was leaning hard in that direction - and then they stopped. </div><!--4571666651667376616F6A600301--><br />You may already be aware of the USCF's pricing, but in case you aren't, they offer a four-issue subscription of Chess Informant on CD for $47.95. The corresponding price for the print editions is $129.95. The cost would be even less if the CDs are purchased during one of USCF's sales offering 20 or 25% off. Sahovski/Chess Informant offers a bundle of four print issues for $59.95, but that doesn't include the cost of shipping from Europe. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1366295229 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1366295229 Fri, 1 Sep 2023 19:10:33 GMT <a href="https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1366295229/11#11">FreeRepublic wrote</a> on 09/01/23 at 13:15:13:<br /><div id="0135222215223732252B2E244702">1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Be2 O-O 6. Nf3 e5 7. O-O <b>h6 </b>is analyzed in the latest ChessPub edition by GM Petrov. It is not 6...Na6, but may also appeal to independent spirits who want an alternative to the main lines.<br /><br />The notes mention the game Tan, J - Demchenko,A Chess.com INT 2022 won by White. I assume the player of the White pieces is the former columnist at ChessPublishing. Congratulations (belated) on the victory! </div><!--0135222215223732252B2E244702--><br />Historical note:  7...h6 8. Re1 Nbd7 transposes to Sherwin-Tal 1958.  James Sherwin (who will soon be 90) mentioned Tal's ...h6 innovation on the Perpetual Chess Podcast not long ago.<br /><br />Here is the game with musical accompaniment. (In the first edition of ECO, Hort cited it as slightly better for White after 15. Be3.)<br /><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBq87rkuFc4" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBq87rkuFc4</a> https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1678954345 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1678954345 Fri, 17 Mar 2023 10:47:16 GMT Placing a rook on the third rank is a main idea in the Zukertort, as well. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1604283529 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1604283529 Thu, 30 Dec 2021 00:28:12 GMT <a href="https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1604283529/7#7">trw wrote</a> on 02/11/21 at 06:14:11:<br /><div id="243334282721234603"><a href="https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1604283529/2#2">Sinn wrote</a> on 11/02/20 at 15:13:48:<br /><div id="764C4B4B2504">1) Personally I play it to avoid the forces variation of the exchange king's indian. As black you don't have to fear the exchange variation structure, it favors you. But if white manage to exchange everything thanks to Bg5 and Nd5 the game soon peter out to a draw. So with this move order : 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 Na6! 7.0-0 e5 Now 8.dxe5 dxe5 is far less of a drawing machine. 9.Bg5 is the main line of the original exchange variation with the idea 9...h6 ? 10.Bxf6 Bxf6 11.Nd5! that attacks both the bishop on f6 and the pawn on c7. But now the N on a6 protect c7 so you just gave up the bishop pair for nothing. So Bg5 is a mistake and you can't exchange all pieces.<br /> </div><!--243334282721234603--><br /><br />I absolutely disagree with this btw and so does Vigorito in the chess pub archive and Golubev (probably the biggest expert on Na6 though his book is dated now). dxe5 is listed as one of the main ways for white to comfortably fight for an edge since he's better in this version but I'd argue that it is probably not too difficult to hold. Depends on exact move orders:<br /><br />Ie 7. 0-0 Qe8 8. dxe5 dxe5  or 8... Qe8 9... dxe5 dxe5 or 8... c6 9. dxe5 dxe5 10. Qxd8 Rxd8 11. Rfd1 Re8 12. h3<br />Anyways, these lines probably shouldn't worry you.<br /> </div><!--764C4B4B2504--><br /><br />I'm not interrested in holding anything, I play for a win with black lol<br /><br />The line you're talking about happen after Qe8 all I was talking about was the fact that the exchange KID with the exchange of queen tend to be dry. <br /><br />With Na6 you avoid the classical ending with lots of further exchange after Nd5. You cannot avoid an ending altogether but it's not a bad and dry one.<br /><br />The line you're talking about do not exchange queens, Qxd8 is not that good in the Na6 line. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1613314355 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1613314355 Sun, 14 Feb 2021 19:59:34 GMT Hi.<br /><br />Yea. There is a limited number of ICCF games. Looks like a very standard KID positiom to be honest. That being said going h6-h5 is not trivial. Conceivably you could want that tempo for something else.<br /><br />Have a nice day. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1327829501 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1327829501 Sat, 23 Jan 2021 00:22:36 GMT Hi.<br /><br />I concluded that after 9...Nd7 white at the minimum has the following attempt. A lot of other lines just allowed black to play his standard King's Indian stuff though.<br /><br /><b>1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Be2 O-O 6.Nf3 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Nd2 Nd7 10.b4 f5 11.a4!?</b><br />11.c5 is the main move.<br /><b>11...Nf6</b><br /><span>11...a5 12.bxa5 Rxa5 13.Nb3 Ra8 14.f3</span><!--underline--> and probably there are predecessors. I am just going to say this looks like to much of what white wants (mostly open queenside) so I don't especially like it.<br /><br /><span>11...f4 12.Bg4!? Nf6 13.Bxc8 Qxc8 14.c5 g5 15.f3 Ng6 16.Nc4</span><!--underline--> the standard wisdom is black will never mate now. I guess white is somewhat better and black has low prospects for counterplay.<br /><br /><span>11...Rf7!? 12.a5!? Nf6</span><!--underline--> <br />12...Kh8 was given at first by my computer but seems to just waste time 13.f3 Nf6 14.c5 f4 15.Nc4 g5 16.cxd6 cxd6 17.Nb5 Ne8 18.Qe1! black should have problems<br /><span>13.c5 f4 14.Nc4 g5 15.b5! Ng6 16.b6 axb6 17.cxd6 cxd6 18.Nxb6 Rb8 19.Nb5</span><!--underline--> and it looks like white should be better. He is further on in his play.<br /><br /><span>11...c5?! 12.bxc5 Nxc5 13.Nb3!? b6 14.a5 Rb8 15.axb6 axb6 16.Nxc5 bxc5 17.Ra3</span><!--underline--> seems a little bit more comfortable for white due to the mostly open queenside.<br /><br /><span>11...g5? 12.exf5 a5</span><!--underline--> <br />12...Nxf5 13.Nde4 h6 14.a5 keeps control for white<br /><span>13.bxa5 Nxf5 14.Nde4 h6 15.Ba3 Rxa5 16.Bb4 Ra8 17.a5</span><!--underline--> Is very comfortable for white.<br /><br /><b>12.f3</b><br /><span>12.a5 f4 13.c5 g5 14.a6 b6 15.Bb5!? Rb8!? 16.Nc4 Ng6</span><!--underline--> In such a closed position white's slight pressure on the queenside should not be worth much. Black essentially just played his most natural moves so I don't think this is optimal.<br /><br /><span>12.Ba3!?</span><!--underline--> seems like an interesting possibility. The good thing is it develops to a natural square. The bad thing is that if black takes fxe4 at some point the square stops being nearly as good (still not really bad though). This means black starts playing for that option in a lot of lines. Since capturing on e4 reduces a lot of the dynamism in the position it becomes a question of is white still strategically better somehow after that. Very hard to say. White also needs something against 14...f4 and standard play from black but it seems to me like he should have more options than normally by not yet having played f3 or Nc4. I could be wrong though.<br /><br /><b>12...f4</b><br /><span>12...Bh6!?</span><!--underline--> Is also an option. That might be what black should try.<br /><br /><b>13.c5 g5 14.Ba3!? Rf7 15.b5</b><br /><span>15.a5 Bf8 16.b5 dxc5 17.Bxc5 Nexd5! 18.Nb3 Bxc5+ 19.Nxc5 Qe7 20.Nxd5 Qxc5+ 21.Kh1 Nxd5 22.Rc1 Qd4 23.exd5 Qxd1!? 24.Rfxd1 Kg7</span><!--underline--> seems like compensation but not more for white.<br /><b><br />15...Bf8</b><br /><span>15...Ng6 16.b6</span><!--underline--> <br />16.c6!? <br /><span>16...cxb6 17.cxd6 Ne8</span><!--underline--> should transpose to 15...Bf8, even if it is not guaranteed.<br /><br /><span>15...dxc5 16.Bxc5 Ng6</span><!--underline--><br />16...Bf8 17.Bc4 Kg7 18.d6 cxd6 19.Bxf7!? (19.Bf2) 19...dxc5 20.Bd5 Seems very good for white unless black somehow has a improbable defence.<br /><span>17.Bc4!? Kh8 18.d6 Rd7 19.Be6 Rxd6 20.Bxd6 Bxe6 21.Bc5</span><!--underline--> and I did not analyse deeply but at this point it seems at least somewhat promising for white.<br /><br /><b>16.b6!?</b><br />16.c6 could also be tricky.<br /><b>16...cxb6</b><br /><span>16...axb6 17.cxd6 cxd6 18.Nc4 Ng6 19.Qb3 Ra6 20.Nb5 Ne8 21.Bb4</span><!--underline--> Is probably more than sufficient compensation but proving it is perhaps not totally trivial.<br /><b>17.cxd6 Ng6 18.Nb5 Ne8 19.Qb3!?</b> White again has good compensation (as soon as black takes on d6). The question is if it can be converted to something more tangible.<br /><br />There was also a line in 11.c5 I found troubling. Both can be avoided by 9...Ne8, although idk. Maybe there could be other stuff in that line.<br /><br />Have a nice day. https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1205276042 ChessPub Forum/Classical https://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1205276042 Thu, 27 Sep 2018 20:11:42 GMT My present opinion is that this line offers White nothing after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Ne1 Nd7 10. Nd3 f5 11. Bd2 Nf6 12. f3 f4 13. c5 g5 14. Rc1 Ng6 15. Nb5 Rf7 16. Ba5 b6 17. cxd6 cxd6! with ...g5-g4 to follow.<br /><br />I nonetheless persist because (a) many players take one of the pieces on offer (knight or bishop) or (b) play the kingside attack no better in this line than after 14. cxd6 cxd6 and "normal" play.