I agree with you all that some lines in the English Defense look critical for the moment. But don't we face these kind of problems in any opening??
For the critical lines given above 4.Bd3 f5 5.exf5 Bxg2 or Bb4+, I heartly recommend you to buy and read through the new book of Ilia Odessky.
He covers these lines in chapter two of his excellent book (pages 55 to 118 !!)The topic of the chapter :"it seems they want to destroy us" fits very well
So stay cool. In OTB games, chess life looks different . How often was the Dragon killed ???And the opening is still played at the highest level !!!

It seems that Langrock doesn't write for ChessCafe anymore...
It's a shame that he didn't finish the series on the English defence.
If I considered playing it, I first needed answers against 1.d4 e6 2.e4 and 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 (which would have been the last part) 

Odessky's book "English Defence" is now out in english version (Russian Chess) 270 pages.

Sorry,

I was looking for the English, not the English Defense.

  I suppose I might have had more luck if I had noticed which folder the question is in.

Gearoid wrote on 07/27/07 at 18:44:46:


I've enjoyed going through the archives of the Chess Cafe, but I still haven't found the two specific articles mentioned here.  Perhaps instead of providing a generic link to the archives main page, Gearoid could have given us the game positions and then provided the specific links.  Oh well.

Quote:


I have a feeling he will never cover it and instead go for the 4...Nc6 variation mentioned above.

Hi guys havs a look at this  http://www.chesscafe.com/archives/archives.htm#From%20the%20Sidelines

There are two interesting articles on the English by Hannes Langrock. He looks at a very sharp line by black
Gearoid

To Basqueknight : the hippo is in fact a very agressive animal (even against other hippos). As a matter of fact it is the most dangerous animal of Africa, in terms of numbers of humans killed by it every year.

Hello john, me and mates spent several obssessive club sessions analysing 4. Bd3 f5 5. exf5 Bxg2 . It appears to us Black will always run out of constructive moves to make, while White continues development freely and actually has some plans (e.g. Ne2-f4-h5). Still, a weak move by White can botch the whole thing, while even non-theoretical moves by Black need to be respected.

Trying to work out a win for White OTB without computer assistance requires accuracy..for example consider the line 6. Qh5+ g6 7. fg Bg7 8. gh+ Kf8 9. Ne2! Nf6 10. Qh4 Bxh1 11. Bg5 Kf7!? (not covered in King's book, or Flear's site). Initially me and clubmates (without help of Fritz) concentrated on 12. Nf4?! Nc6 13. Nd2 Nxd4 (now Black has Nf5 and Bf3 ideas) 14. Bg6+ Kf8 15. 0-0-0 Bf3, and now White has to find  16. Ne4!! winning, else White loses! But of course Black also has 15... Nf5!, and White can only go for equal endgame with 16. Bxf5 exf5 17. Rxh1 Rxh7 18. Bxd8 =  , therefore we realised (only on hindsight) 12. Nf4?! is probably not good enough.

I guess our experience has been that the initial moves for White are very important for the course of the whole game, and the trick to playing this line for White is to finish developing the queenside first, and not rush matters, so instead of 12. Nf4?!, probably try 12. Nd2/ 13. 0-0-0 or 12. Nbc3/ 13. 0-0-0, where Black's life is not easy, and I also think this whole 5... Bxg2 business is +-!

At the moment it seems that the critical test of the dynamic English (4. ...Ktc6 is depressingly passive) is Beliavsky's 1; d4 e6 ; 2.c4 b6 ; 3; e4 Bb7 ; 4; Bd3 f5 ; 5.ef Bb4+ ; 6. Kf1 Ktf6 ; 7. Be2! although after having thrashed Short with it, he lent his weight to the Black side with a surprising piece sac !(can't remember exactly where he deviated-I'll look it up).
On the other hand, 4. Ktc3 Bb4 ; 5. f3 as recommended in this thread should pose no particular problems to the Black : either the cool 5. ...Kte7, the aggressive 5. ...Qh4+ followed by ...e5 or the immediate 5. ...e5!? give Black good play.
On a final note, I was badly defeated as Black by grandmaster Murey in a rapid tournament recently after 1. c4 b6 ; 2. Ktc3 Bb7 ; 3. e4 (I thought I was up against the TwoPawnAttack) e6 ; 4. d4 Bb4 ;
5. e5!? My first reflex was 5. ...Kte7 ; 6. Qg4 d6 ; 7. Qxg7 Rg8 ; 8. Qxh7 Rxg2, but after the simple 9. Kth3, I was in a bad way. The old fox still has some deadly novelties up his sleeve! To my knowledge, this has been completely overlooked by chess literature.
Any ideas on how to counter this dangerous line?

hi, never thought early a3 lines was a problem (also King's opinion, though he was abit biased to Black in his book!), while i was also impressed by the Avrukh-Grabliauskas game covered by Flear recently. In that game, Black put his bishop on e7, played a5, Na6-c5, and challenged White to make progress. Avrukh didn't seem like getting anywhere, and lost trying too hard. 

perhaps you can vary between 4. Bd3 Nc6, Bb4+, f5  to be less predictable..

By the way, i recently noticed that 4. Bd3 f5 5. exf5 Bxg2 was covered in Gidden's book on 101 Opening Traps, apparently the "free" rook on h1 is an opening trap set by White 

hello, bravehoptoad, your line of reasoning looks simliar to the BDG guys One can't suppose people do not know the theory, or cannot prepare well in this database age. To base one's repertoire on such a narrow tactical bottleneck as 4. Bd3 f5 5. exf5 Bxg2 (or 5... Bb4+) is very risky. Perhaps you can get away with it up to a certain level... but for sure these are not long term solutions, see eg. Bunzmann!

Yes the English Defence is very stimulating to study. It took me alot of time to get enough confidence to play the critical 4. Bd3 as White, perhaps as much as playing 5. Bg5 against the Semi-Slav!

I am considering to play the English Defence against 1. c4 myself. Maybe the best defence to the English Opening is the English Defence?! I agree with Dearing that ... Bxf3 lines should be better for White in theory, but in a practical game, i can accept the positions i see in King's book.

But imho the English Defence is not so good against 1. d4, because if 4. Bd3 f5 5. exf5 Bxg2 (or 5... Bb4+) does not work, then White is clearly superior.

Re 4. Bd3 Nc6, 5. Ne2 followed by kingside attack f2-f4-f5 seems critical, and easy to play for White (see recent game Bareev-Chernyshov Sochi 2005). 5. Nf3 doesn't do much and both King and Stohl (NIC) agree that 5. Ne2 is stronger than 5. Nf3.

After losing a game to the English defence recently , i decided to study the theory! and after reading Daniel King's book and other sources, 1. d4 e6 2. c4 b6 3. e4 Bb7 4. Bd3! looks like the best move on the board, it is certainly most flexible. 
I examined with club-mates the "HORROR LINE" 4.. f5 5. exf5 Bxg2 for a few hours, it seems to us that Black is in some trouble (a semi-zugzwang of sorts) if White plays critical 9. Ne2. From Suttercane's review of Bauer's 1... b6 book, the verdict of this line has not changed since survey in NIC YB 54 (2000). The computer gives =0.00, but can any human defend against 5 pawns worth of initiative?! 
Flear in recent SOS 4 article also preferred 4. Bd3 Bb4+ .

BK,

Just translate hippo from the Greek, and you may like it more:  hippo=horse potamus=river ("River horse", a favorite of Poseidon). 

If you don't like that, just think how those hippo balerinas  danced in Fantasia!  If you can make your horseys dance like that, what difference does the name of the opening make?

BK,

Take a look at GM Flear's move order.  The critical difference between the two is that Black gets to play a pawn structure that is more similar to the Leningrad Dutch because he plays ...f5 before he develops his Ng8.  This system has an excellent pedigree and even Mikhail Tal played around with similar ideas. 

I wish Black would just transpose to the QID, cos that way I wouldn't have to spend any extra time on the complexities of move-order traps.

Hey guys,

I am also a big fan of the English Defence, however I wouldn't worry too much about 1...b6 preventing English lines with 2.g3. I have had a few games with 2.Nc3 Bb7 3.Nf3 e6 4.g3. Black can head into a hedgehog, of course, however most English defence fans prefer 4...Bxf3!? 5.exf3 c5, which I am pretty sure is better for White - see Dearing-Bigg and Dearing-Ward (both of which were clearly better for White, and neither of which I actually managed to win!).

As for the Hedgehog...well, I rather like facing that too, but I'll save my thoughts on that for another day.

Hope this helps,

Ed

I used to play the English but I gave it up because of f3 lines which promised White an easy edge.

If you face the move order 1.c4 b6 2.d4 e6 play 3.e4 Bb7 4.Bd3 where f5 5.xf5 Bxg2 6.Qh5+ leads to wild tactics which are better for white. Just don't grab the g8 knight at the first opportunity, don't prematurely develop the Bc1 and focus on rapid development with an overwhelming attack. I've done quite well against Suttercane with this. After other 4th moves just consolidate the center.

If you don't feel like tactics the reason I gave up the  English Deense is the following line 1.c4 b6 2.d4 e6 3.e4 Bc3 4.Bb4 f3 where if white plays accurately he gains an easy advantage against both f5 and Qh4+

There is any interesting discussion of this line with exd5?! in Rowson's Seven Deadly Chess Sins book.  Maybe later I can write a post recapping his ideas.

A standard line is 1 c4 b6 2 d4 e6 3 a3 Bb7 4 Nc3 f5 5 d5 Nf6 and now 6 g3 where White does indeed get to fianchetto his king's bishop.
The following play is somehow easier to play for White who continues with natural development whereas Black has the problem of trying to get his two wings to communicate properly. I prefer White although Black shouldn't be underestimated.
You'll have to see my daring defences e-books for further details. There are a couple of games in the Feb update for instance

I start this topic for all fans of the ENGLISH DEFENCE!

I guess we will have a lot of fun!!!

So, let's dance!

SutterCane