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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Anti-Colle-Systems (Read 12642 times)
John Cox
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #13 - 10/06/05 at 19:15:22
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In reply to jaxaxe:

Hoho. Yes, Colle books normally don't bother to mention this sequence, largely because it rather inhibits their fine White-to-play-and-win flow. The great Lane, to be fair, does cover the sequence you mention (White is winning, naturally, although I'm afraid I forget exactly how), but equally naturally forgets to point out 4...c6 with a very solid variation of the Slav for Black.

I think, incidentally, that Shirov says in Fire on Board volume one that he doesn't think Kramnik-Hertneck was the end of the road for Black, although he doesn't provide any analysis.
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #12 - 10/06/05 at 02:38:57
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As you noticed in some recent updates, I refined the idea against the "poor London system"   Smiley 4.e3 (4.c3 Qb6 5.Qb3 Nc6 6.e3 c4) 4...Nc6 5.c3 Qb6 6.Qb3 c4 and so on, in order to prevent White's queen knight coming to c3 with a black queen on b6.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #11 - 10/05/05 at 11:48:47
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GM Prie,

It was quite by accident that I stumbled onto your analysis of the Baltic in this thread.  I wish there had been some way to cross-reference threads automatically, because I've been struggling with the "main" lines of the Baltic as White and this idea of Kramnik's looks like a great one!  I hadn't seriously considered Bf4 in response to Qc7, but on further review it looks much better than I thought.

Thanks for crossing over the border to give us your insights on a line that's been giving me trouble in the QGD!
  
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jaxaxe
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #10 - 09/28/05 at 14:24:58
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Quote:
Hello friends,

I need info about a special line in ANTI-COLLE:

1. d4 d5
2.Nf3 Bf5
3.c4 e6
4.Qb3 Nc6
5.c5 ...

Any tricks & traps for white available ???

SutterCane

Related to this is a similar line which gets no coverage in my 'Summerscale Bible':

1. d4 d5
2. Nf3 Nf6
3. e3  Bf5

I have tried things like

4. c4 e6
5. Qb3


although I am wondering whether I am missing a trick should play Nc3 first here, particularly noting the previous post about Colle after 5 Qb3 Nc6 !

Does anyone have any opinions or observations on the best approach at move 5  ?
  
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Nods and Winks
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #9 - 08/29/05 at 14:21:26
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Thank you for clearing that up GM Prie. I recently looked at Edgar Colle vs Nimzowitch, Frankfurt, 1830, in John Love's book Positional Ideas in Chess, p.234. Colle was out-played after 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.e3 Bf5 4.c4 e6 5.Qb3 Nc6! 6.c5 Qc8 7.Bb5 Nd7. I thought that this type of game might appear from Sutter Cane's suggestion at the beginning of this thread. After c4-c5 White has a bad dark square B and few ways to get rid of it. This game might fit the ECO code for the d4 pawn specials and serve as a non-example. In any case thank you for the input here. Much appreciated. In is interesting to realize that a player of Colle's strength could go wrong here.
  
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GMEricPrie
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #8 - 09/27/04 at 04:06:15
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I guess this is my anti-Colle day Smiley

This sytem for Black has been completely 'closed' my Kramnik, in the middle of the nineties, when he played 1.Nf3, often confronted to move order 1...d5 2.d4 Bf5 3.c4 e6 4.Nc3! c6 5.Qb3 only now! With the great idea 5...Qc7 6.Bf4 dxc4 (only move 6...Qb6 7.c5) 7.Bxc7 cxb3 8.e4 Fg6 9.a3!! Kramnik-Hertneck Bundesliga 95 1-0 (33)
This is also a very good line for White in the Baltic defence 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Bf5 3.Nc3 then.
Unfortunately -it was an immense surprise for me- there is not a single game with this system in Ruslan's section. Since the provenance of the games are, by an overwhelming majority with an 'Anti-Colle' move order, it would have been a great pleasure for me to comment some World champion games in this section but, alas, it is ECO coded D06, one too short Smiley
Which makes me say, that all the Chesspublishing commentators just do the same : Basically, they only deal, in their updates, with variations they, themselves, find of some interest ...and the rest possibly on 'their' forum Wink)
On the other hand, the idea of rapidly playing a Qb3 (Qb6) -it does not help at all to change on d5 (d4) on the contrary- happens to be Black's best try against the poor 1...d5 London : 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bf4?! (3.c3 with the same idea is not very ambitious but OK) 3...c5 4.e3 (4.c3 cxd4 is an equal exchange Slav for instance) 4...Qb6! 5.Nc3 and now 5...c4, 5...a6, 5...Bd7 score well for Black but only because White's king knight is on f3.
  
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #7 - 09/25/04 at 11:13:21
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Quote:
Why not try the following line instead:
1. d4 d5
2. Nf3 Bf5?!
3. c4 e6
4. cxd5 exd5
5. Qb3 followed by Nc3 and rapid development of the Q side with Rac1. What do you think ? Wink

What advantage does exchanging on d5 offer for white? I've faced the line in a tournament game before and as a result pretty much gave upon 2.Nf3. I think black should be fine (there's no real problem for white, it's just that he doesn't seem to get any advantage at all).
  
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #6 - 09/25/04 at 04:45:18
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Chipkin,L (2240) - Dolgitser,K (2260)
Nassau CC-ch Mineola, 1994

1.d4 d5 2.e3 Ff5 3.c4 e6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Db3 Cc6 6.Dxb7 Fb4+ 7.Cc3 Cge7 8.Fd2 a6 9.Cxd5 Fxd2+ 10.Rxd2 Tb8 11.Cxc7+ Rf8 12.Ce6+
12.Dxa6 Cxd4 13.exd4 Dxd4+
12...fxe6 13.Dxa6 Txb2+ 14.Rc1 Cb4 15.Da4 Tc2+ 16.Rd1 Ced5 17.Re1 Dc7 18.Da3 Tc3 19.Da8+ Rf7 20.Dxh8 Txe3+ 21.Ce2
21.Fe2 Dc3+ 22.Rd1 Fc2+ 23.Rc1 Fa4+ 24.Rb1 Dc2#
21...Dc3+
[ 21...Dc3+ 22.Rd1 Td3#]  0-1

  

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Winker
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #5 - 07/28/03 at 21:24:39
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Why not try the following line instead:
1. d4 d5
2. Nf3 Bf5?!
3. c4 e6
4. cxd5 exd5
5. Qb3 followed by Nc3 and rapid development of the Q side with Rac1. What do you think ? Wink
  
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems - "Ultimate Colle" book
Reply #4 - 07/27/03 at 17:22:30
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I find Lane's "Ultimate Colle" book to be fairly informative, but it is much too biased towards White, which to me ruins the objectivity of the book and takes away from it's otherwise high quality.  There HAS to be a reason the Colle is not played more often by those at or towards the top, and it is, I suspect not JUST the King's Indian/Grunfeld setups that foil it.  Although I'm hardly an expert on either side of it (I played it for White for a while and was 0-6-1 with it; but I've played against it using the KID structure and haven't lost a game yet), it is my belief that Black can also adopt a mix of a Queen's Indian/Reversed Colle-Zukertort setup against it and get a good game, in particular using the h2-b8 diagonal to create some threats against White's king.

But stronger players than I love it, so what do I know...?
  
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1Wink
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #3 - 07/16/03 at 08:55:35
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I have played 4.Qb3 but with little success. I'm beginning to think that this move is a wee bit hasty and that other moves should be seriously considered.
  
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tp
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #2 - 06/04/03 at 04:24:00
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As far as i know this is not a colle.
A colle normally has a pawn formation of c3 d4 e3 with bishop on d3 and knights on f3 and d2.  the developed bishop and the d2 knight supports an e4 push at some stage. Sometimes black plays c5 and white will exchange the d4 pawn for the c5 pawn, enabling the e4 push.

The other variation is the Collle-Zukertort system which places the minor pieces as above, without the c3 pawn, but with the addition of a b3 pawn and the black bishop developed to b2. This aims at putting some pressure along the long diagonal later on in the game.  The f3 night sometimes goes to e5 with f4 in support. 

One good book on the colle is "The Ultimate Colle" by IM Gary Lane.
  
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Re: Anti-Colle-Systems
Reply #1 - 01/25/03 at 08:54:35
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This line is covered in Chris Ward's book 'Unusual Queen's Gambit declined' in the section on the Baltic Defence. He says about 5.c5, "Black has enough play not to suffer to badly."

The game given is Gretarsson v M.Ehrke (Gausdal 1998)

The game ended in a win for White in 74 moves.

The next few moves were 5...Rb8 6.Bf4 Nf6 (...Be7 7.e3)
7.h3 (7.Nc3 a6) Be7 8.e3 a6 9.Nc3 Ne4 10.Qa4 0-0 11.Rc1 g5 12.Bh2 h5 13.b4 g4

This looks pretty equal.
« Last Edit: 01/25/03 at 13:16:06 by Harvey Williamson »  
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Anti-Colle-Systems
01/22/03 at 21:40:34
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Hello friends,

I need info about a special line in ANTI-COLLE:

1. d4 d5
2.Nf3 Bf5
3.c4 e6
4.Qb3 Nc6
5.c5 ...

Any tricks & traps for white available ???

SutterCane
  

I recognize terror as the finest emotion in a chessgame and so I will try to terrorize my opponent. But if I find that I cannot terrify, I will try to horrify, and if I find that I cannot horrify ...
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