Latest Updates:
Normal Topic C12: Mac-cutcheon (Read 4527 times)
ChessMunsta
Guest


Re: Mac-cutcheon
Reply #9 - 10/21/03 at 05:30:45
Post Tools
I didn't see this thread before, sorry

First: Read the thread "...Problems with the Classic". Maybe you want to comment the MacCutcheon variants there, especially the plan Nd7-b6-a4 and pawns a6 b5 after 11.c4 instead of 11. Bd7.

Second: The line with 8.Bc1 (mentioned by bckm) is really old. In a (real old )book of Alexei Suetin (Don't know the real name, because i own a german localisation) he says something like "8.Bc1! ... This moves the bishop back to his origin field and even loses a tempo, but it is the best one! ... Ways for black to save this position are c5, Qa5 planning Qa4"

I will look through RaspjeRuignek's variants...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Re: Mac-cutcheon
Reply #8 - 05/12/03 at 06:39:38
Post Tools
Bc1 exists but with one move (Bg5-Bc1) and not two. I don't know if it makes a difference, but it seems to me that it's a clever gambit for White, because Black usually gives the c3 pawn but wins some weakened dark squares in the Black kingside. Acceptance of the gambit is dangerous (and you saw that) because knight has no good square except e4, and taking it quickly leads to lost game after Qg4 (Kf8 to protect g7 loose knight after Qb4+ and g6 means weak dark squares). But White can't play f3 (because of Qh4+ ; it's the difference with Be3 instead of Bd2) thus Black has time to do a useful move like Bd7 (Murey?) or to transpose with c5 as given above.May be you can try f5 too...
  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Raspje
Junior Member
**
Offline


Play the dynamic French

Posts: 55
Location: Winsum, Groningen,Holland
Joined: 01/05/03
Gender: Male
Re: Mac-cutcheon
Reply #7 - 05/12/03 at 05:07:47
Post Tools
Well, after 8.Bc1 c5 9.Bd3 N:c3 10.Qg4 play transposes to a well known variation which is quite good for black. A possible continuation is 10...g6 (10...Kf8!?)11.d:c5 Qa5 12.Bd2 Qa4! 13.h3 h5! 8)(Keres) 14.Q:a4 (14.Qf3 then Ne4 if I am not mistaken to disrupt the coordination of the white pieces and attack pawn c5) N:a4 15.Bb5+ Bd7 16.B:a4 B:a4 17.Rb1 and ...Bc6 is safest now, planning ...Nd7 and maybe ...0-0-0 (depends on the circumstances). An analytical exercise might be: what do you think of 17...Nd7? An interesting move but is it good?  ??? Food for thought! Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bckm
Junior Member
**
Offline


Start the day with a smile
and get it over with...

Posts: 69
Location: Los Angeles
Joined: 05/08/03
Re: MacCutcheon
Reply #6 - 05/11/03 at 19:23:47
Post Tools
This line was recently played against me by someone  420 points above me (he was White):  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bb4 5.e5 h6 6.Bd2 Bxc3 7.bxc3 Ne4 8.Bc1(?!) This was my first time playing the MacCutcheon as Black, and he played his 8th move instantly.  After digging in to analyze the move (which I'd never seen), I declined taking the proffered pawn on c3 because I felt my knight could easily asphyxiate and he would have gotten a monstrous lead in development.  Has anybody played against this line?  What do you recommend?

Thanks!  Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Quark
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Sic transit gloria mundi....

Posts: 23
Location: Andromeda-nebula
Joined: 02/15/03
Gender: Male
Re: Mac-cutcheon
Reply #5 - 02/18/03 at 08:31:31
Post Tools
Indeed. I was first trying out 11...Qc7, but somehow, I dont really trust blacks position after 12.Rb1!? c4 13.Be2
Probably this is just something silly of me.... Tongue
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Raspje
Junior Member
**
Offline


Play the dynamic French

Posts: 55
Location: Winsum, Groningen,Holland
Joined: 01/05/03
Gender: Male
Re: Mac-cutcheon
Reply #4 - 02/17/03 at 20:04:36
Post Tools
I also play the MacCutcheon and in my opinion black can continue with 11...Qe7!? 8), followed by Bd7/Bc6. This is how Zifroni played against Sutovsky. If white still decides to play 12.Rab1, then ...c4!? 13.Be2 Nc6 planning Rb8/b5/a5(Qa3)/b4 seems good for black. This is a familiar plan in the 8...Kf8 variation. In the database there is a huge score for white but this does not mean black's position is bad. 12.d:c5 Bd7 transposes. So keep on playing this beautiful variation! Cheesy
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
fianchetto
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline



Posts: 17
Joined: 01/08/03
Re: Mac-cutcheon
Reply #3 - 02/17/03 at 14:49:46
Post Tools
Hi everyone,

unfortunatly for black, the sacrifice seems correct after 12...Bc6. Dom and Quark came up with 12...Qc7. I had 2 ideas :

    1) 12...Nc6 and with a line like 13.Rxb7 Qa5 where black looks to have his share of the fun, but maybe this pawn sacrifice might be questionnable
    2) 12...h5 The drawback(s) of this move is obvious, g5 is now a good square for white, but at least white's sacrifice are now unsound, for e.g. : 13.Qg3 Bc6 14.Bxg6 Rg8 15.Bxf7 KxB . This looks like a reasonnable bet for black

Just ideas, 12...Qc7 looks good to me...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Quark
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Sic transit gloria mundi....

Posts: 23
Location: Andromeda-nebula
Joined: 02/15/03
Gender: Male
Re: Mac-cutcheon
Reply #2 - 02/16/03 at 11:57:51
Post Tools
I was also planning to play ...Qc7. Still it is very strange that there are very little players who play this line with white, since it looks dangerous for black.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dom
YaBB Moderator
*****
Offline



Posts: 908
Location: Toulouse
Joined: 01/11/03
Gender: Male
Fischer-Glek 11...Bd7!?
Reply #1 - 02/16/03 at 09:58:23
Post Tools
Hello Quark,
I have the same questions as you and Glek gives position as unclear after Qxe6.
I lost one game after 11.Rhb1 Bc6 (Juglard-Laurain,CEIT 1999) and Juglard explained me after the game that Sharif had same difficulties, in a previous game Juglard-Sharif.
Well, I must admit I didn't know bishop sacrifice in McCutcheon at the date of my game.
After Rab1 I suggest Qc7!? obviously to protect b7, but non only: castle long, defending on the 7th rank, and threatening e5 and c3 pawns are well motivated.
Some variations to analyze in depth.:
13.Nh4 g5 ; 13. Qh4 Bc6 14.Qf6 Rg8 ; 13.dxc5 Nc6 14. Rhe1 ooo 15.Nd4 Nxe5 ; 13.Bxg6 Rg8 with a superior variation for Black than with 12.Bc6 because e pawn is not lost and king can flee on h7 without trouble on 13.Bxf7+ Kxf7 14.Qh5+ Kg7 15.Nh4 Kh7 when pawn strike g4? miss the target because of Be8.
  

“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Quark
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


Sic transit gloria mundi....

Posts: 23
Location: Andromeda-nebula
Joined: 02/15/03
Gender: Male
C12: Mac-cutcheon
02/15/03 at 06:48:57
Post Tools
Hello,
I play the mac-cutcheon with black, but it seems there are clouds gathering above the line I play.
The problem is the following.
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bb4 5.e5 h6 6.Bd2 Bxc3 7.bxc3 Ne4 8.Qg4 g6 9.Bd3 Nxd2 10.Kxd2 c5 11.Nf3! (To me it is very strange that this move is not played so frequently. More often, white tries h4 ir Qf4.) Bd7 (This is the line I play) 12.Rab1! (This move showed up in Karjakin-Stellwagen, WaZ 2003. The Idea is to play 12...Bc6 13.Bxg6! fxg6 14.Qxe6 Qe7 15.Qxg6+ Qf7 and now 16.Qxf7+ Kxf7 17.Nh4! planning to push the kingside pawns. Somehow it seems very tricky to stop. In the above mentioned game black played : ) 12...c4 13.Bxg6!? Rg8 14.Bxf7+ Kxf7 15.Qh5+ Kg7 16.Rxb7 When a complicated position arises which could well be better for white.
Somehow this white setup (11.Nf3, without Qf4) is completely ignored by theory. What to do with black?
« Last Edit: 08/03/11 at 20:47:11 by dom »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo