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Normal Topic Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni (Read 5656 times)
John Cox
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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #8 - 11/05/05 at 20:27:40
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Ronald, you should have met 6 Bg5 with Be7, as in a game Dlugy-Kramnik. White has to wait for ...g6 as SF says.

I think the move order rule is simple; there is only one line where Black doesn't play h6/g5/Nh5 right away. The reason for that is that at the critical moment with the bishop on g3 White plays Bb5+ and you have to play ...Kf8 since putting a piece on d7 leaves d6 en prise.

So it makes sense that White must have played e4 but Black not castled. That means the sequence which matters must be 6 e4 g6 7 Nf3 Bg7 8 Bg5 h6 9 Bh4, and sure enough 9...g5 10 Bg3 Nh5 11 Bb5+ Kf8 12 e5 is a big problem (based I believe on a game by Michael Stean from the mid-70s). So instead Black plays 9...a6 and now White has a choice: if 10 a4 then g5/Nh5, or if 10 Nd2 then b5. So White either has to allow b5 for free or give his bishop.

There's a bunch of theory after these moves, of course, but it's not stuff one needs to know; doesn't happen that often and the sort of thing where principles will guide you reasonably well as opposed to there being tactics you have to know.
  
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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #7 - 11/05/05 at 11:23:58
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Wow,

I haven't seen this thread before!  I used to play Bg5 as White all the time.  White does need to be careful about move order, waiting until Black has already played ...g6 to play Bg5.  If he isn't careful, he can allow Black to play ...h7-h6, and then g7-g5, saving a tempo.  In that case, I prefer Black.  Otherwise, I really don't trust ...g5 as a dangerous response to White's set-up. 

Fratenben's analysis is quite hefty, but the one thing that sticks out for me is that the analysis is quite dated.  Are there any more recent examples of these lines being played, or is this the end of White's Bg5?   Shocked

  
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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #6 - 11/05/05 at 03:20:15
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I played the Modern Benoni in my local chess club yesterday, against a 1900 (ELO) - my rating is only 1600, so getting beaten was to be expected. The game went:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 3.d5 e6 4.Nc3 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Bg5 h6 (and here, my opponent played a funny, but to me annoying, move, because I have not seen or read about this option for White) 7.Bd2 a6 8.a4 Bf5 9.a5 g6 10.g3 Bg7 11.Bg2 Qe7 12.Nf3 0-0 13.0-0 Be4 14.Qb3 Bxf3 15.Bxf3 Nbd7 16.e4 b5 17.axb6 e.p. Rfb8 18.Qc2 Nxb6 19.Be2 Nbxd5 (thought I'd get his e2-bishop at the end of
this little combination, but miscalculated...)
20.exd5 Nfxd5 21.Bf3 Nb4 22.Qe4 Qd7 23.Be3 Rbe8 24.Qb1 Rab8 25.Rd1 Qe6 26.Nd5 Nxd5 27.Bxd5 Qf6 28.Rxa6 Rxb2 29.Qd3 Qe5 30.Qxg6 Qxd5 31.Qxd7+ Kxg7 32.Rxd5 Rb1+ (Black wisely resigned a few moves later).

7.Bd2 put me off the track mainly because I've just started playing the Modern Benoni and expected 7.Bh4 here (I would have chased it with 8.g5 as theory prescribes). Anybody knows how to react to White's 7.Bd2 ?

Greetings,
Ronald
Belgium

  
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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #5 - 05/04/03 at 19:01:12
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MESSAGE PART III
 
Hello Chessfriends,

                                 I continue the analysis about the line:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 d6 5.Nc3 exd5 6.cxd5 g6 7.Bg5 Bg7 :


8.Nd2

[ A) 8.h3 a6 9.a4 Qe7 10.Nd2 Nbd7 (10...Qe5!?) 11.e3 h6  12.Bh4 g5 13.Bg3 Ne5 14.Be2 Bf5
B) 8.e4 and C) 8.e3 see the comments at the 7th black move ]

8...0-0 9.e3

[9.Nc4]

9...Na6! 10.Bd3

[10.Bc4 Nc7 11.a4 a6;

10.e4; 10.Nc4 Nc7 11.a4 b6]

10...h6

[10...Nc7 11.Nde4 Nce8]

11.Bh4 Nc7 12.0-0

[12.e4 b5 13.0-0 Ba6
  A) 14.Qc2 Qd7 (14...g5 15.Bg3 Nh5 16.a4 b4) 15.a4 b4=;      
  B) 14.Qf3 Re8]

12...b5!?

[12...a6 13.Nde4 Nce8 14.a4 Qb6 15.Rb1]

13.Nxb5

[13.e4 a6=]

13...Nxb5 14.Bxb5 Rb8 15.Bd3 Rxb2 16.Nc4 Rb4 17.a3

[17.Rb1 Rxb1 18.Qxb1 Ba6 19.Rc1 Qc7 (19...Bxc4 20.Bxc4 Qc7=) 20.Bg3 Bxc4 21.Bxc4 Rb8 22.Qd3 Nh5=]

17...Rb8 18.Rc1 Ba6 19.Re1

[19.e4 Bxc4 20.Rxc4]

19...Bxc4 20.Bxc4 g5 21.Bg3 Ne4 with equal game

END PART III

Best Regards,
Sergev
  
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Fratenben
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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #4 - 05/04/03 at 18:47:18
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MESSAGE PART II

Hello Chessfriends,

I continue the analysis about the line:
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 d6 5.Nc3 exd5 6.cxd5 g6 7.Bg5 Bg7
:

[D) 7....h6 8.Bh4 g5 9.Bg3 Nh5
D1) 10.e4 Nxg3 11.fxg3 (11.hxg3 Bg7 12.Qc2 a6 13.a4 Nd7 14.Nd2 Ne5 15.f3 h5! 16.Be2 Ng6 Momcilovic-Kapengut, Pula op 1990) 11...Bg7 12.Qa4+ Nd7 13.Be2 0-0 14.0-0 Qe7 15.Qc2 Ne5 Peev-Gochev, Sofia 1981;
D2) 10.Qa4+?! Bd7!? 11.Qe4+ Qe7 12.Bxd6 Qxe4 13.Nxe4 f5 14.Bxb8 Rxb8 15.Nc3 b5;
D3) 10.Nd2 Nxg3 11.hxg3 Nd7 12.Nc4 Nb6 13.e3 a6 14.a4 Bg7 15.Qd2 Nxc4 16.Bxc4 Bd7 17.a5 Agdestein-Ljubojevic, Wijk 1988 17...b5 18.axb6 Qxb6=;
D4) 10.e3
D4a) 10...Bg7
D4a1) 11.Qa4+ Bd7 12.Qb3 Nxg3 13.hxg3 Qc7 14.Nd2 0-0 15.Be2 Na6 16.0-0 Rab8;
D4a2) 11.Nd2 Nxg3 12.hxg3 ‚ 10... g3;
D4a3) 11.Bd3 0-0 12.Qc2 (12.Nd2 Nxg3 13.hxg3 Nd7 14.Nc4 Nb6 15.Nxb6 Qxb6 16.Qc2 Bd7 17.Rb1 f5= Antoshin-Psakhis, Sochi 1979) 12...f5 13.Be2 Na6 14.Nd2 Nxg3 15.hxg3 Qe7= Malaniuk-Van der Werf, Groningen op 1990;
D4a4) 11.Bb5+ Kf8! (a main line)
D4a431) 12.0-0 Nxg3 13.fxg3 a6=;
D4a432) 12.Be2 Nxg3 13.hxg3 Nd7 (13...f5? 14.Nd2 Nd7 15.Qc2 Ne5 16.f4! gxf4 17.exf4 Lerner-Ionescu, Moscow 1987) 14.Qc2 Qe7 15.Rb1 Ne5 16.Nxe5 Qxe5 17.g4 Bd7 18.a4 h5! 19.gxh5 g4 Spasov-Hort, Slnchev Brjag 1974;
D4a433) 12.Qc2 a6 13.Bd3 Nxg3 14.fxg3 b5 15.0-0 Ra7! 16.Rf2 Nd7 17.a4 b4 18.Ne4 Nb6 19.Raf1 a5!? Borges-Gavrikov, Tallinn 1989;
D4a434) 12.Bd3 Nxg3 13.hxg3 (13.fxg3 Qe7 14.0-0!? Nd7 15.Bf5 Nf6 16.Nd2 a6 17.Qf3 Kg8 18.Bxc8 Rxc8 19.Rf2 Re8 20.Raf1 h5= Yusupov-Gavrikov, Frunze 1981) 13...Nd7 14.Qc2 Qe7 15.Bf5 (15.0-0?! h5! 16.Bf5 g4 17.Nd2 h4ƒ) 15...Rb8 16.a4 (16.Nd2?! b5 17.a4 b4 18.Nd1 Ba6 19.Bd3 b3! Antoshin-Gorelov, Moscow 1981) 16...a6 17.a5 (17.0-0 b6 18.Nd2 h5! 19.Nc4 g4 Yurkov-Korolev, Moscow 1979) 17...Qf6 18.Nd2 h5 19.Ra4? b5! 20.axb6 Nxb6 Antoshin-Psakhis, Moscow 1981;
D4b) 10...Nxg3 11.hxg3 Bg7 12.Bd3!? 0-0!? 13. Qc2 Na6 14.a3 Nc7 15.Bh7+ Kh8 16.Bf5 Qf6 17.g4 b5 18.0-0-0 Re8 19.Rd2 Qe7 20.Ne2 b4= Filipov-Bloh, corr 1991/94; ]

END PART II

Best Regards,
Sergev
  
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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #3 - 05/04/03 at 18:28:37
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MESSAGE PART I

Hello Chessfriends,
                          At the Indo-Benoni the Bg5 variation is an important line and black have an important decission over the board: ask to white bishop with h6 and g5 or to make other standard plan with a solid development and to push over the queen flank and maybe to delayed the moves h6,g5 only when to It is the  necessary moment.
                           I think that the first plan have more risk than the second plan.
                             Here I show the analysis of my chessfriend Marco Bulgarini over this matter with the second plan mentioned how main line :

Bulgarini, Marco [A61]
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 c5 4.d5 d6 5.Nc3 exd5 6.cxd5 g6 7.Bg5 Bg7


[7...h6 8.Bh4
(8.Bf4 Nh5 9.Bg3 Bg7 10.Nd2 Nxg3 11.hxg3 Nd7 12.e3 0-0 13.Be2 Ne5 14.a4 b6 15.Qc2 Qe7 16.0-0 h5! Filip-Rajkovic, Smederevska Palanca 1978)
A) 8...Bg7
    A1) 9.e4!? A71;
    A2) 9.Nd2
         A2a) 9...a6?! 10.a4 g5 11.Bg3 Nh5 12.Nc4 Nxg3 13.hxg3 Bf5 (13...f5?! 14.Qb3! 0-0 15.Qb6) 14.e3 0-0 15.Bd3 Bxd3 16.Qxd3;
         A2b) 9...Qe7 10.e4 Nbd7 11.Be2 g5 12.Bg3 Ne5 13.0-0 Bd7 14.a4 Horvath-Garcia Palermo, Oakham 1986;
         A2c) 9...g5 10.Bg3 Nh5 11.Qa4+ Kf8 12.e3 (12.e4 Nxg3 13.hxg3 a6 14.Be2 Nd7 15.Qc2 Ne5 16.0-0 h5„)
                A2c1) 12...a6 13.Qc2 b5 14.a4 b4 15.Nce4!? Bf5 (15...Nxg3 16.Nxg3) 16.Bd3 Nxg3 17.hxg3 Nd7 18.0-0 Cebalo-J.Horvath, Zenica 1987;
                A2c2) 12...Nxg3 13.hxg3 Nd7 14.Qc2 (14.Nc4 Ne5 15.Nxe5 Bxe5 16.Qc2 g4!=) A2c21) 14...a6 15.a4 Rb8 16.Be2 Nf6 17.Ra3?! (17.a5!?) 17...Ng4 18.Rb3 b6 19.Nc4 Ne5 20.Na3 g4! Garcia-Tal, Havana 1963; A2c22) 14...Ne5 A2c221) 15.Nc4 a6 16.a4 Rb8 17.Nxe5 Bxe5 18.Bd3 (18.f4 Bg7 19.Bd3 b5 20.axb5 axb5 21.Bxb5 h5 22.0-0 Qe7 23.fxg5 Qxe3+ 24.Kh1 Qxg3 25.Rxf7+ Kxf7 26.Ra7+ Kf8 0-1 Heinis,V-Cvitan,O/Biel 2002 (26)) 18...h5= Adler-Cebalo, Bern 1988; A2c222) 15.Be2 15...a6 16.a4 h5!? (16...g4 17.Rh5! Rb8 18.a5; 16...Bd7 17.a5 Rb8 18.e4) 17.a5 (17.Rxh5 Rxh5 18.Bxh5 g4) 17...g4=;
    A3) 9.e3
        A3a) 9...g5 10.Bg3 Nh5 ‚ 8... g5;
        A3b) 9...a6 10.a4 (10.Nd2 b5=) 10...Bg4!? 11.Qc2 (11.Be2!?) 11...Bxf3 12.gxf3 Nbd7 13.a5 (13.f4!?) 13...0-0 14.f4 b5 15.axb6 Qxb6= Hartston-D.Bronstein, Tallinn 1979;      
        A3c) 9...Qb6!? 10.Rb1 Bg4 11.Be2 Bxf3 12.Bxf3 0-0 13.0-0 Nbd7 14.Bg3 Rfc8= Yuferov-Magerramov, USSR 1978;   
        A3d) 9...0-0 10.Nd2
               A3d1) 10...a6 11.a4 Nbd7 12.Be2 A3d11) 12...Ne5?! 13.f4 …Neg4 14.Bxg4 Bxg4 15.Bxf6 Qc8 16.Bxg7! Bxd1 17.Bxf8 Kxf8 18.Rxd1; A3d12) 12...Re8 13.0-0 Qc7 14.e4 (14.Rc1 Ne5 15.h3 g5 16.Bg3 Bf5 17.Bxe5 Rxe5 18.Nc4 Re7= Cebalo-Ljubojevic, Reggio Emilia 1985) 14...Rb8 15.f4 c4 16.Kh1 b5 17.axb5 axb5 18.e5! dxe5 19.fxe5ƒ Czabolcsi-Armas, FRA t-ch 1993; A3d13) 12...Qe7 13.0-0 Rb8 14.Qc2 Rd8 15.h3;
               A3d2) 10...Nbd7 11.Be2 Qe7 (11...Ne5 12.Nde4!? Qe7 13.0-0 a6 14.a4 Re8 15.a5 Bf5? 16.Nxf6+ Bxf6 17.Bxf6 Qxf6 18.f4! Nd7 19.g4 Be4 20.Ra4!+- Lechtynskt-Boensch, Halle 1981) 12.0-0 g5 (12...a6!?) 13.Bg3 A3d21) 13...Ne5!? 14.a4 Bf5 15.e4 Bd7 16.h3!? (16.Re1 Rfe8 17.Nf1 h5! 18.f3 h4 19.Bf2 Nh5 Bjork-Romanishin, Stockholm tt 1986) ; A3d22) 13...Ne8 14.e4! Ne5 15.Nc4 f5 16.exf5 Bxf5 17.Nxe5 Bxe5 18.Bd3;
               A3d3) 10...Na6
                     A3d31) 11.Bc4 Nc7 12.0-0 A3d311) 12...Re8 13.a4
                           A3d3111) 13...Bd7 14.Qe2 (14.e4!?) 14...Rb8 15.Rfc1 a6 16.a5 b5 17.axb6 Rxb6 18.Ra2 Qb8 19.b3 Qb7= Stempin-Stoica, Polanica Zdroj 1983;
                           A3d3112) 13...Rb8 14.e4 g5 15.Bg3 a6 16.a5 b5 17.axb6 Rxb6 18.Bd3! Nb5 19.Nc4 T.Georgadze-Dorfman, Erevan zt 1982; A3d312) 12...a6 13.a4 Rb8 14.a5 b5 15.axb6 Rxb6 16.Ra2 Rb4 17.e4 Nb5 18.f4 g5 19.fxg5 Ng4 20.Bxb5 hxg5 21.Bxa6 gxh4 22.Bxc8 Qxc8 23.Qe1 f5 24.Qxh4 Rd4 25.Ra7 Qd8 26.Qxd8 Rxd8 27.Rxf5 Nh6 28.Rg5 Nf7 29.Rxg7+ Kxg7 30.Nf3 Kf6 31.Nxd4 cxd4 32.Nd1 Rc8 33.Kf1 Ng5 34.Nf2 Rc1+ 35.Ke2 Rc2+ 36.Ke1 Rxb2 37.h4 Nf7 38.Ra4 Rb1+ 39.Ke2 Rb2+ 40.Ke1 Rb1+ 41.Nd1 Ke5 42.Kd2 Rb3 43.Ra7 Kf6 44.Ra4 Ke5 45.Nf2 Rb2+ 46.Ke1 Rb1+ 47.Ke2 Rb2+ 48.Kf3 Rb3+ 49.Kg4 d3 50.Kf3 d2+ 51.Ke2 Rg3 52.Kxd2 Rxg2 53.Ke2 Rg3 54.Ra7 Kf6 55.e5+ Kxe5 56.Rxf7 Kxd5 57.Rf5+ Ke6 58.Rf6+ Ke5 59.Rxd6 1-0 Efimov,I-Galego,L/Lido Estensi 2002 (59);
                        A3d32) 11.Nc4 A3d321) 11...Nc7 12.a4 b6 (12...Qe7 13.Be2 b6 14.0-0 Ba6 15.Re1 Bxc4 16.Bxc4 a6 17.e4 g5 18.Bg3) A3d3211) 13.Be2 Ba6 14.Na3!? Bxe2 15.Qxe2 g5?! (15...Qd7!?) 16.Bg3 Ncxd5 17.Nxd5 Nxd5 Cebalo-Franco, Luzern 1989 18.Nc4!; A3d3212) 13.Bd3 13...Ba6 14.0-0 Qd7!? 15.e4 Bxc4 16.Bxc4 a6= Balashov-Garcia Palermo, Malmo 1987; A3d322) 11...Re8 12.Be2 Nc7 13.a4 b6 14.0-0 Ba6 15.Qb3 Qe7 16.Rfd1 Bxc4 17.Bxc4 g5 18.Bg3 Nh5 19.Bd3 Nxg3 20.hxg3 h5= Tukmakov-Lechtinsky, Vilnius 1978;
B) 8...a6 9.a4 g5 10.Bg3 Nh5 11.Nd2 Nd7 12.Nc4 Nxg3 13.hxg3 Nb6 14.Na3 Bd7 15.a5 Nc8 16.Nc4 b5 17.axb6 Nxb6 18.e3 Nxc4 19.Bxc4 Bg7 20.Qd3 0-0 21.0-0 a5 22.Ra2 f5 23.Bb5 Bc8 24.Ne2 Ra7 25.b3 Qb6 26.Bc4 Bd7 27.Nc3 Be8 28.Re2 Re7 29.Qc2 Kh8 30.Bd3 Qb4 31.Rc1 Bh5 32.Ree1 f4 33.Na2 Qb7 34.gxf4 gxf4 35.e4 Bd4 36.Nc3 Rg7 37.Nb5 0-1 Nikolac,J-Cebalo,M/Velika Gorica 2002 (37);
C) 8...Nbd7 9.Nd2 g5 10.Bg3 Nh5;

END PART I

Best Regards,
Sergev
  
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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #2 - 04/16/03 at 10:38:44
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Hmm ... I have been looking at the Psakhis book on this ... it seems Black has to be pretty careful with his move order but it is definitely a good idea to chase down the bishop with ...g5 and ...Nh5, before White can get e4 and Nd2 in (stopping ...Nh5).

If not, you end up (as I did) in a sort of 4 Pawns with White's dark-squared bishop active on g5/h4 instead of rather passive on c1.  This means that Black's options are rather limited compared to the 4 Pawns proper.

In particular, he doesn't really want to commit his queen to c7, it seems to me.  In the 4 Pawns he has the option of ...h6 and ...Nh7 as a defensive manouevre, and ...Ne8 also features in many positions.  Neither of these are possible with the Bh4/Qd8 juxtaposition.

So next time, I will get ...g5 and ...Nh5 in as soon as I can!  (Watson also recommends this approach in his recent book).
  

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Re: Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
Reply #1 - 04/02/03 at 10:18:22
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Hm, just checked what Fritz had to say about 7.Bg5 line. According to Fritz7 engine, 7...Bg7 is a better choice. However, Fritz7 and Nimzo8 opening books both give clear advantage to 7...h6 continuation for Black.

Well, now I guess it's off to real pros to give us insights on 7...Bg7 vs. 7...h6. I am just starting to play Benoni Wink
  
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Bg5 vs. Modern Benoni
03/27/03 at 09:59:37
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It is no use, I have tried giving it up but I keep going back to the Benoni ...  Roll Eyes

I had an interesting game yesterday which gives rise to a question.  The game went:

1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 c5 3.d5 e6 4.c4 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.Nc3 g6 7.Bg5 Bg7 8.e4 h6 9.Bh4 0-0 10.Nd2 Nbd7 11.Be2 a6 12.a4 Rb8 13.0-0 Re8 14.f4 Qc7 15.Qc2?! (15.Kh1!) and round about here I thought I was in danger of running out of moves and getting squashed, so I tried 15...c4!? 16.Kh1(!) (16.Nxc4 b5 and 16.Bxc4 Ng4 or 16...b5 both give black some compensation I think) 16...b5 17.axb5 axb5 18.e5 dxe5 19.fxe5 Rxe5 (I don't think 19...b4 works) 20.Bg3 Qb6 21.Rae1?! Nxd5! 22.Nxd5 (22.Bxe5 Ne3!) 22...Rxd5 23.Bxb8 Qxb8 24.Bf3 Re5 25.Rxe5?! Qxe5 (25...Nxe5!?) 26.Bc6 Nf8 27.Bxb5?! Qxb5 28.Qxc4 Qd7 and then a time scramble from which I emerged with a very good/winning adjournment.

The question is, what is the best way of handling these Bg5 lines with Black?  Should I, as I suspect, just kick the bishop back with ...h6, ...g5, and ...Nh5, while that is still possible?  Or is what I did the right way - it felt more than a little uncomfortable until I stumbled across the 'randomising' 15...c4!?

Any thoughts?
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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