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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) C30-C39: Death of King's Gambit (Read 119726 times)
flaviddude
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #230 - 08/17/07 at 04:49:33
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everalexfor wrote on 08/17/07 at 01:19:00:
Hey thanks guys for the imput.  Yeah I'm thinking to continue playing the king's gambit, and very very slowly practice the Vienna or something similar (I'm still playing 1.e4 no matter what anyone says!).  The King's Gambit is very sharp and can be something of a shocker against an unprepared opponent expecting 2.Nf3, and its rare to find someone well versed in the refutations below the master level.

I've been hearing good things about the Bishop's Gambit 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4.  Does anyone know if this is better/equal to 3.Nf3, i.e. is it worth looking into or is it a waste of time?

On a completely unrelated note... can someone please tell me how to quote others in these forums.  I see people quoting what others said in a grayish box before they reply and I can't figure out how to do that. Thanks!


First hit the quote button and then type in your stuff after the [/quote]

The great news is that it the Bishop's Gambit is totally playable. There is no refutation but black can probably equalize if he knows the theory. Of course this means that all the work that you have spent on the various lines of the King's Gambit Declines s still relevant.   

Get a copy of "The Fascinating King's Gambit". Even if you play the knigh's gambit this book is still very useful on the declined variations.
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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everalexfor
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #229 - 08/17/07 at 01:19:00
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Hey thanks guys for the imput.  Yeah I'm thinking to continue playing the king's gambit, and very very slowly practice the Vienna or something similar (I'm still playing 1.e4 no matter what anyone says!).  The King's Gambit is very sharp and can be something of a shocker against an unprepared opponent expecting 2.Nf3, and its rare to find someone well versed in the refutations below the master level.

I've been hearing good things about the Bishop's Gambit 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4.  Does anyone know if this is better/equal to 3.Nf3, i.e. is it worth looking into or is it a waste of time?

On a completely unrelated note... can someone please tell me how to quote others in these forums.  I see people quoting what others said in a grayish box before they reply and I can't figure out how to do that. Thanks!
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #228 - 08/16/07 at 21:14:17
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There is another solution , but it's easier to apply in CCplay (what is my case) ; usually , I play 2 knighys or Evans Gambit , but I play the KG if I know that my opponent always plays the Petroff
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #227 - 08/16/07 at 18:28:16
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Quote:
I agree with Toppy- some players realise later than others that they need to move on from the Kings Gambit to climb the Elo ladder. I don't think Joe Gallagher and Alexei Federov in particular suffered too much until they got nearer 2550 though.


B.

Keep playing the KG and get good at tactics. When you get to 2500, worry about changing then  Wink
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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flaviddude
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #226 - 08/16/07 at 11:19:56
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everalexfor wrote on 08/16/07 at 00:45:41:
Hi everyone,

I have been a hardcore King's Gambit fan for several years now, and was quite pleased to see the evolution of this thread, as it gave me some very interesting insights on my favorite line.  So yes, it does seem like some lines are on their deathbed, so now I must decide (as must every king's gambit player) do i want to continue playing the king's gambit?  I thought about this long and hard until I realized it is not that simple.  I considered several possible options for myself which I would like some advice as to which one to choose.  Note that I am a 2000 level player who plays actively both tournament and blitz chess.

Options:

A: Continue to play the King's Gambit with my head held high on the stubborn idea that the king's gambit is a good line and the current troublesome lines will have improvements found for white soon enough by those studying theory.

B: Continue to play the King's Gambit in view of the fact that I am scoring 80% with it and have had few troubles in my games.  I will accept that at the highest levels the opening is unsound but at my level the opening is fine.  If i ever advance to a level where I have trouble with it, then I'll switch over. (this option is tempting, but seems to go against my desire to play the best chess I can)

C: Play my beloved King's Gambit in tournament games where I'm used to all the different positions, and play a different line in blitz/practice games, to slowly learn the theory and nuances of the other line.. and then eventually switch to that line in tournament play (note that this could take me months, maybe even years before I would be that comfortable)

D: Study the books really hard, and immediately switch to a different line in tournament games.  Continue to play King's Gambit in blitz games as a sharp aggressive line

E: Drop the King's Gambit entirely.  It's dead.

These are my options for the future.  Which do you guys think is the most reasonable?


Well I have had the same problem and I have a suggested solution which I am following. Play the King's Gambit in correspondence and play the Bishops Opening and sometimes the Vienna over the board. 
Frequently both the Bishops Opening and Vienna will transpose to a line of the king's Gambit declined where white has good chances and a much more normal looking position than in the King's Gambit.

For example

1.e4 Nc6 (
a Fide Master played this on me) 
2.Nc3 (I played d4 which gives black more choices)
2....e5
3.Nc3 Nf6
4.d3 Bc5
5. f4 d6
6. Nf3 with a standard king's Gambit declined position where it is not easy for black to fully equalise.

So black can avoid this but will he know the theory. 

The bishops opening is dealt with in John Emms 'Attacking with 1.e4"
  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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flaviddude
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #225 - 08/16/07 at 10:46:02
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everalexfor wrote on 08/16/07 at 00:45:41:
Hi everyone,

I have been a hardcore King's Gambit fan for several years now, and was quite pleased to see the evolution of this thread, as it gave me some very interesting insights on my favorite line.  So yes, it does seem like some lines are on their deathbed, so now I must decide (as must every king's gambit player) do i want to continue playing the king's gambit?  I thought about this long and hard until I realized it is not that simple.  I considered several possible options for myself which I would like some advice as to which one to choose.  Note that I am a 2000 level player who plays actively both tournament and blitz chess.

Options:

A: Continue to play the King's Gambit with my head held high on the stubborn idea that the king's gambit is a good line and the current troublesome lines will have improvements found for white soon enough by those studying theory.

B: Continue to play the King's Gambit in view of the fact that I am scoring 80% with it and have had few troubles in my games.  I will accept that at the highest levels the opening is unsound but at my level the opening is fine.  If i ever advance to a level where I have trouble with it, then I'll switch over. (this option is tempting, but seems to go against my desire to play the best chess I can)

C: Play my beloved King's Gambit in tournament games where I'm used to all the different positions, and play a different line in blitz/practice games, to slowly learn the theory and nuances of the other line.. and then eventually switch to that line in tournament play (note that this could take me months, maybe even years before I would be that comfortable)

D: Study the books really hard, and immediately switch to a different line in tournament games.  Continue to play King's Gambit in blitz games as a sharp aggressive line

E: Drop the King's Gambit entirely.  It's dead.

These are my options for the future.  Which do you guys think is the most reasonable?

  

I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #224 - 08/16/07 at 08:00:41
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I agree with Toppy- some players realise later than others that they need to move on from the Kings Gambit to climb the Elo ladder. I don't think Joe Gallagher and Alexei Federov in particular suffered too much until they got nearer 2550 though. However, it's interestng that Alexei is now playing the Ruy lopez ! How sad !

There are some gambit lines that you could incorporate into your repertoire that are totally sound- it's just a fact that not all gambits stand up to scrutiny. My personal recommendations for 1e4 players would be the Korchnoi gambit in the French Tarrasch, the 10 e5 line in the Poisoned Pawn Najdorf, 5 d4 and 6 c3 in the Ruy lopez delayed Schliemann. 

Isn't the key to get a sharp open position- which normally follows a gambit opening. That is a lot easier to achieve than a sound gambit !
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #223 - 08/16/07 at 05:03:43
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everalexfor wrote on 08/16/07 at 00:45:41:
Hi everyone,

I have been a hardcore King's Gambit fan for several years now, and was quite pleased to see the evolution of this thread, as it gave me some very interesting insights on my favorite line.  So yes, it does seem like some lines are on their deathbed, so now I must decide (as must every king's gambit player) do i want to continue playing the king's gambit?  I thought about this long and hard until I realized it is not that simple.  I considered several possible options for myself which I would like some advice as to which one to choose.  Note that I am a 2000 level player who plays actively both tournament and blitz chess.

Options:

A: Continue to play the King's Gambit with my head held high on the stubborn idea that the king's gambit is a good line and the current troublesome lines will have improvements found for white soon enough by those studying theory.

B: Continue to play the King's Gambit in view of the fact that I am scoring 80% with it and have had few troubles in my games.  I will accept that at the highest levels the opening is unsound but at my level the opening is fine.  If i ever advance to a level where I have trouble with it, then I'll switch over. (this option is tempting, but seems to go against my desire to play the best chess I can)

C: Play my beloved King's Gambit in tournament games where I'm used to all the different positions, and play a different line in blitz/practice games, to slowly learn the theory and nuances of the other line.. and then eventually switch to that line in tournament play (note that this could take me months, maybe even years before I would be that comfortable)

D: Study the books really hard, and immediately switch to a different line in tournament games.  Continue to play King's Gambit in blitz games as a sharp aggressive line

E: Drop the King's Gambit entirely.  It's dead.

These are my options for the future.  Which do you guys think is the most reasonable?


By all means continue to play The King's Gambit, as its hard to give up on something you enjoy success with. As a practical weapon especially on the lower levels, the Kings Gambit is fearsome as are most Gambit Openings (Queens Gambit excluded) at that level. Potential problems arise when as a result of your success you advance to higher level tournaments/opposition and realise that you are suddenly finding it very difficult to make these gambit openings work as you would like. Some realise this later than others, and the consequences at times can be rather depressing.

If one's primary attraction to chess is excitement and fun, without bothering unduly about the result, then one can play gambits exclusively your entire chess playing life. However if you want sustainable growth up the elo ladder, it would be advisable to encorporate into one's repertoire some openings noted for their durability along with the wild stuff, and this should be done concurrently.

Be proactive, do not wait till you start encountering problems with a risky opening to think about switching to something more solid. But rather start preparing your backup and fail safe Openings even while enjoying success with your chosen gambit, that way when the time comes any transition to be made should be less traumatic. Many amateurs fail to anticiptate these issues and often when their pet lines/openings fall on hard times they find it near impossible to play anything else with any confidence. Don't let that happen to you.

Toppy Smiley

« Last Edit: 08/17/07 at 01:00:20 by TopNotch »  

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #222 - 08/16/07 at 01:27:55
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In your case: a mixture of B and C. On amateur level it is most important to play openings that give you confidence. But in addition it might be sensible to think about an alternative, just in case your score drops and your confidence disappeares. You may try that one in blitz and casual games occasionally.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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everalexfor
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #221 - 08/16/07 at 00:45:41
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Hi everyone,

I have been a hardcore King's Gambit fan for several years now, and was quite pleased to see the evolution of this thread, as it gave me some very interesting insights on my favorite line.  So yes, it does seem like some lines are on their deathbed, so now I must decide (as must every king's gambit player) do i want to continue playing the king's gambit?  I thought about this long and hard until I realized it is not that simple.  I considered several possible options for myself which I would like some advice as to which one to choose.  Note that I am a 2000 level player who plays actively both tournament and blitz chess.

Options:

A: Continue to play the King's Gambit with my head held high on the stubborn idea that the king's gambit is a good line and the current troublesome lines will have improvements found for white soon enough by those studying theory.

B: Continue to play the King's Gambit in view of the fact that I am scoring 80% with it and have had few troubles in my games.  I will accept that at the highest levels the opening is unsound but at my level the opening is fine.  If i ever advance to a level where I have trouble with it, then I'll switch over. (this option is tempting, but seems to go against my desire to play the best chess I can)

C: Play my beloved King's Gambit in tournament games where I'm used to all the different positions, and play a different line in blitz/practice games, to slowly learn the theory and nuances of the other line.. and then eventually switch to that line in tournament play (note that this could take me months, maybe even years before I would be that comfortable)

D: Study the books really hard, and immediately switch to a different line in tournament games.  Continue to play King's Gambit in blitz games as a sharp aggressive line

E: Drop the King's Gambit entirely.  It's dead.

These are my options for the future.  Which do you guys think is the most reasonable?
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #220 - 08/16/07 at 00:02:09
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I guess the insults were deleted by the moderator, and so I haven't seen them, but it certainly sounds reason enough to ban someone. Could someone give me some details in a PM? Thanks.
  
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #219 - 08/02/07 at 19:46:31
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alumbrado wrote on 08/02/07 at 18:58:17:
I don't have the power to do anything other than delete individal posts - and I'm not sure the good that would do is worth the time spent doing it ...

If you want him banned, you'll have to e-mail Tony K.

That's my Pontius Pilate bit for the day ...


Not worth the trouble, O most noble Pontius.  Friends and Romans, what do I care if the spurious allegation that I wronged this boy's mother remains graven upon the tablets of this forum?  Let future generations judge who was in the right, the noble Marcus Markovictus of 1300 most learned posts (to date), whose ancestors fought alongside Horatius on the Pons Sublicius, and who contributed so lavishly to last winter's games, or that lowborn boy whose name is not worthy of my utterance!  Hail and fairwell, I am off to my Campanian estate.  The Senate knows where to find me if it needs me!
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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alumbrado
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #218 - 08/02/07 at 18:58:17
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I don't have the power to do anything other than delete individal posts - and I'm not sure the good that would do is worth the time spent doing it ...

If you want him banned, you'll have to e-mail Tony K.

That's my Pontius Pilate bit for the day ...
  

If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #217 - 08/02/07 at 02:20:35
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If contributions have only been insults, rantings and Fritz-dumping it appears there will be little loss to the masses if the individual is banned. 
Agree.

Erm, original ideas and/or analysis for discussion anyone...?
  
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MNb
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Re: Death of King's Gambit
Reply #216 - 08/02/07 at 01:37:14
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Somehow that does not surprise me.
This means, that my previous statement about HM's analytical contributions still are valid: the amount of variations remains close to zero.
Still more advocates for a ban, besides Markovich and me?
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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