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Normal Topic white's problems with caro advance main line (Read 3541 times)
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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #8 - 10/13/03 at 20:58:50
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Really?  For instance, I thought black was having some difficulty in the line 12.Kb1 Nc4 13. Bxc4 Rxc4 14. g4 (for example, Tiviakov-Komljenovic, Linares 1998).

Anyway, my point was that the Dragon is a risky opening that you can spend a great deal of time anaylzing and still not have a decent answer to some of the problem lines.
  

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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #7 - 10/12/03 at 11:41:00
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The Nc3 and g4 line is aggressive against the Caro-Kann, but I find it to be much nicer to setter for the quieter advantage offered by the "positional" line w/ Nf3, Be2, and O-O which was championed by Nigel Short.

In response to Sacanode's audacious Dragon comment, I would like to note that Black is fine in the 9. Bc4 Main Line (w/ Bd7 and Rc8) and it is primarily in the 9. Bc4 w/ Qa5 lines that Black is having problems (in addition to, at least according to John Federowicz, 9. O-O-O. Though I would personally disagree with that assessment).
  
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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #6 - 10/11/03 at 03:52:12
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Upon closer look, 21..b5! seems to refute 19.Ncxd5.  How can White avoid a queen trade to a favorable endgame for Black?
  

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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #5 - 10/11/03 at 03:45:57
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Darn emoticons!  I meant  Rh8 and Kb8.  Apparently, "8" and ")" next to each other gives  8).  Annoying.
  

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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #4 - 10/11/03 at 03:42:12
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Afterthought:  In the line I gave, 21...b5! (instead of 21...Rh8) and 22...Bg6 (instead of 22...Kb8) look like better defensive tries.
  

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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #3 - 10/11/03 at 03:13:11
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I am minded of the old joke:  A man goes into the doctor's surgery: "Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I raise my arm." The doctor replies "So don't raise your arm".  Not that funny, but it seems to me if you are having trouble with this line after analysing it so extensively, you should consider playing something else!!

Ha!  Go tell that to the Dragon analysts! Wink

Actually I play the Dragon myself, but I'm thinking about adopting another Sicilian for exactly the same reasons in light of the many problems black has been having the 9.Bc4 Yugoslav.

Okay, that's not really related to this discussion (Hey the forum said 1.e4... right? Smiley), but this reminded me of similar problems I have faced when trying to make risky lines work in home analysis.  It's frustrating to not be able to play an opening because of a problem line, when most of the lines people play (the inferior lines  Smiley) suit your playing style well.  Some people just ignore the problem and hope their opponents are not aware!

Okay, I know that isn't any help.  I don't play these lines, but I looked at the analysis.  At the critical position at move 16, it seems like white is in big trouble if he doesn't do something drastic fast, since black has obvious targets on queenside that he can attack very quickly.  It seems like white needs to blow up the center somehow to make something of his position.  I couldn't find any other sacrifices on move 16 that looked very promising, so as far as I can see 16. Qg5 looks like the best active approach, as the other moves given seem too slow.  In the main line given, instead of 19.Qxb4, 19.Ncxd5 looks very tempting, especially considering that endgame looks very unappetizing with white's bad pawn structure.

19. Ncxd4!? exd5

(19...Qxg4 I think white can hold his position after regaining the piece, but it's complicated.  Here's a same ple line in my analysis, illustrating a neat idea:  20. Nxf4+ Kc7  21.Nxh7 Rxg4  22. Rd7+! Kb6  23. Rxf7 Ne5  24. Rf6 and white maintains an initiative, a pawn up.)

20. Rxd5+ Kc8 and now I think

21. c4(!) is the best way to maintain the attack.  At the moment, white is down two pieces down but it looks black is about is lose a piece and white already has three extra pawns.  From black's perspective, it seems difficult to find an active plan since white's king looks relatively safe, despite the opening of the king's position by c4.  Then again, for white to make something of his position, he like has move his queen from the protection of c4.  Also he is low on pieces.

After 21...Rh8 (trying to keep material),
22. Rhd1 looks best, keeping the pressure and threatening Nxh7, regaining the piece.  Then 22...Kb8 looks like the only way to avoid the immediate loss of a piece.  Then 23. e6+ looks best and things look dangerous for black, though maybe he can survive.  I think white might have at least a draw here.

Here's the full line for clarity:
19. Ncxd4!? exd5 20. Rxd5+ Kc8 21. c4 Rh8 22. Rhd1 Kb8 23. e6+

After 23...Kc8 24. Nxh7 Rxh7 25. Qf5 looks good.  For example, 25...Qxc4+ 26.Kb1 Rh8 27. e7+ Kc7 28. Qd7+ Kb6 29. e8=Q.  And if 23...Kc8 doesn't work, I think white has at least a perpetual after 23...Ka7.

I hope this helps.  It's nice if a tactical line like this works against the Caro-Kann, since it's such a solid opening.
  

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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #2 - 10/09/03 at 03:16:32
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I am minded of the old joke:  A man goes into the doctor's surgery: "Doctor, doctor, it hurts when I raise my arm." The doctor replies "So don't raise your arm".  Not that funny, but it seems to me if you are having trouble with this line after analysing it so extensively, you should consider playing something else!!  Smiley
  

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Re: white's problems with caro advance main line
Reply #1 - 10/08/03 at 23:43:55
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Uh, it looks like you're more of an expert on this than any of the rest of us. Grin
  
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white's problems with caro advance main line
05/04/03 at 19:31:22
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Dear Chessfriends and GM Andy Martin:

I have problems with white side at the line (maybe a main line):

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nc3 e6 5.g4 Bg6 6.Nge2 c5 7.h4 h5 8.Nf4 Bh7 9.Nxh5 cxd4  10.Qxd4 Nc6 11.Bb5 Nge7 12.Bh6 Rg8! 13.0-0-0  a6 14.Bxc6+ Nxc6 15.Qf4 Qa5

Now the question is: what is the best move for white ?
I have many continuations at my database but I don't find a equalizing line for the white side, for example:.

16.Qg5 (This move isn't into my database but I believe that it can to be the best but not for to take advantage of the position)

[The alternatives are:
16.Rhe1 Nb4 17.a3 (17.Qg5 Nxa2+ 18.Nxa2 Qa4 19.Re2 Qxa2 20.Bxg7 Qa1+ 21.Kd2 Bb4+-+) 17...Rc8 18.axb4 Qa1+ 19.Kd2 Qxb2 0-1 Chapman,M-Rogers,I/Suncoast 1999 (28);

16.Bg5 Rc8 17.Rh3 d4 18.Rxd4 Nxd4 19.Qxd4 Qc5 20.Qd2 b5 21.Ng3 b4 0-1 Logdahl,H-Vernersson,P/Stockholm 2000 (31);

16.Kb1 Nb4 (16...Rc8µ) 17.Rc1 Rc8 18.a3 Nxc2 19.Rxc2 Rxc3-+ 20.bxc3 Qxc3 0-1 David,A-Kallai,G/France 1996 (30);

16.Rd2 Bg6 (16...b5 17.Re1 b4 18.Nxd5 exd5 19.Bxg7 Bxg7 20.Nxg7+ Rxg7 21.Qh6 Rg6 22.Qxh7 Qxa2 23.Rd3 Ke7 24.e6 Rxe6 25.Rxe6+ Kxe6³) ;

16.Rh3 Nb4 (16...Qc7 17.Qa4 0-0-0 18.Bf4 d4³) 17.Rd4 Nxc2 18.Ra4 Qc5 19.Rf3 Bg6 20.Bxg7 Bxg7 21.Nxg7+ Rxg7 22.h5 Ne1 23.hxg6 Nxf3 24.Qxf3 Rxg6 25.Rf4 Rg7?    (25...Qc7! -+) 1-0 Aggouridis,A-Halkias,A/Greece 2001 (37)]

16...gxh6

[16...d4!?
16...Bg6 17.Nxg7+ Bxg7 18.Bxg7 Nb4 19.a3 Rc8 20.h5 Na2+ 21.Nxa2 Qa4 22.Nb4 Rxc2+ 23.Kb1 Rd2+ 24.Kc1=]

17.Nf6+ Kd8 18.Qf4

[18.Qe3 Kc8µ]

18...Qb4 19.Qxb4 Bxb4 20.Nxh7 Bxc3 21.Nf6 Rg7 22.bxc3 Nxe5 23.g5 hxg5 24.hxg5 Kc7 25.f4 Ng6

[25...Nc4 26.Rh6 b6 (26...Rc8 27.Nh5 Rg6 28.Rh7 Nd6 29.Nf6=) 27.Nh5 Rg6 28.Rh7 Nd6 29.Nf6=] 26.f5 [26.Rd4 Ne7]

26...Nf4 27.g6 exf5 28.Rh4 Rxg6 29.Rxf4 Rxf6 30.Rxd5 Rg8 31.Rdxf5 Rxf5 32.Rxf5 Rg7 33.Rf6 is draw possible?


  
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