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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez (Read 28892 times)
Zarvox
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #39 - 08/22/05 at 12:21:00
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Thanks, Markovich! (It's August '04, actually.) The variation in Shirov-Anand is incredibly complicated.
  
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Markovich
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #38 - 08/22/05 at 07:40:01
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So what's the way to neutralize 9.Nbd2 in the Open? Markovich? Anyone?


You really should get yourself a subscription to the 1. e4 e5 section of this most excellent website, dear boy.  If you had, you would've seen Nigel Davies October 2004 discussion of Morozevich-Ponomariov, Biel 2004.  You should also look at Delchev-Gyimesi, Nova Gorica 2004 and Shirov-Anand, Mainz 2004.  "Black seems to be back in business," quoth Davies.
« Last Edit: 08/22/05 at 08:49:43 by Markovich »  

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Markovich
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #37 - 08/22/05 at 07:31:39
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Nope, I don't have nor have I seen Yearbook 75.

Are you saying that according to Yearbook 75 that some knight move at some point at some time solves Blacks problems in the 9.Be3 line. Perhaps you could supply some exact moves so that I may follow your discussion with more clarity.

Toppylov Grin


Sorry, I was talking about 9...Be7  10. c3 Nc5  11. Bc2 Nd7.    This appears to be doing well in recent games, quoth van der Tak in NIC YB 75, showing some.
  

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Zarvox
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #36 - 08/21/05 at 22:53:05
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So what's the way to neutralize 9.Nbd2 in the Open? Markovich? Anyone?
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #35 - 08/17/05 at 17:20:58
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I could be wrong, but I've a feeling this has been covered somewhere here and refuted.


Yes it has, basically White ignores the Black Knight which actually threatens nothing on g4 and gets on with the usual Lopez business of building a central pawn majority and expanding there and on the Queenside.

In the meantime Black continues to twiddle his thumbs, before eventually deciding to correct his mistake by retreating the misplaced Knight.

Quite an easy winning formula for White to follow methinks.

Tops Grin  
« Last Edit: 08/18/05 at 17:33:13 by TopNotch »  

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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #34 - 08/17/05 at 08:43:32
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I could be wrong, but I've a feeling this has been covered somewhere here and refuted.
  
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Bela Geczy
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy LopezBela
Reply #33 - 08/17/05 at 08:40:07
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A local master in Denver prefers this Black system:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Nf6 4.0-0 Ng4! 5.h3 h5! with amazing results.

Bela
  
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #32 - 08/17/05 at 05:48:46
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At the risk of taking us further down this deviation from the subject matter, I would argue as, I think, Botvinnik did in one of his games collections, that sacrifice has very little to do with tactics: if a sacrifice has a clear tactical justification , i.e. you get your pawn/piece/rook/queen back with interest, then it is not a sacrifice, but a combination.
  

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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #31 - 08/17/05 at 05:10:10
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"the dichotomy of tactical vs positional player is false"
I completely agree. The biggest virtue of The art of sacrifice is, that it gives long term sacrifices a positional foundation.
  

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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #30 - 08/16/05 at 18:11:37
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Andrew Brett said:

Quote:
[a) If you play the Schliemann, the Marshall, Open, Archangel/Bc5, Zaitsev, you will need to know and keep up to date with theory.

b) Your choice of defence will hinge on whether you prefer tactical or positional play and on whether you would like to attack or defend solidly.


a)I don't think keeping up to date with theory is a major issue for people at this website.

b)  You suggest that positional play is not tactical.  That is a very old and incorrect bias.  The best positional players have always been good at tactics.  In fact, there are many openings which require the good positional player to delve into the deepest thickets of tactics, so the dichotomy of tactical vs positional player is false.

Lastly, I'd love to see some concrete lines in the Open variation too!
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #29 - 08/16/05 at 16:56:06
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You'll confuse non-English-speakers with puns like "mute point."

There is a more or less approving discussion of the line with ...Nd7 in NIC YB 75; have you seen that? I've done well with that move from time to time.

Maybe GM Renet would be good enough to supply some annotated games with 9. Be3.  Are you reading this, GM Renet?

It does strike me as a little odd that 9. Nbd2 was supposed to be the silver bullet against the Open for all those years (one of Kasparov's seconds even said that they had closed the Open Defense), and no sooner is it neutralized than 9. Be3 is hailed, by some, as the silver bullet against the Open.


Nope, I don't have nor have I seen Yearbook 75.

Are you saying that according to Yearbook 75 that some knight move at some point at some time solves Blacks problems in the 9.Be3 line. Perhaps you could supply some exact moves so that I may follow your discussion with more clarity.

Toppylov Grin
  

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Zarvox
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #28 - 08/16/05 at 11:40:05
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It does strike me as a little odd that 9. Nbd2 was supposed to be the silver bullet against the Open for all those years (one of Kasparov's seconds even said that they had closed the Open Defense), and no sooner is it neutralized than 9. Be3 is hailed, by some, as the silver bullet against the Open.
How is 9. Nbd2 neutralized?
  
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Markovich
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #27 - 08/16/05 at 08:21:34
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The pros and cons of the Dilworth variation maybe a mute point, since currently 9.Be3 is considered very good for White.


You'll confuse non-English-speakers with puns like "mute point."

There is a more or less approving discussion of the line with ...Nd7 in NIC YB 75; have you seen that? I've done well with that move from time to time.

Maybe GM Renet would be good enough to supply some annotated games with 9. Be3.  Are you reading this, GM Renet?

It does strike me as a little odd that 9. Nbd2 was supposed to be the silver bullet against the Open for all those years (one of Kasparov's seconds even said that they had closed the Open Defense), and no sooner is it neutralized than 9. Be3 is hailed, by some, as the silver bullet against the Open.
  

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Andrew Brett
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #26 - 08/16/05 at 02:43:57
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I know I'm a bit late to the debate on how to defend the Ruy , but my thoughts on what I have seen posted are as follows:

a) If you play the Schliemann, the Marshall, Open, Archangel/Bc5, Zaitsev, you will need to know and keep up to date with theory.

b) Your choice of defence will hinge on whether you prefer tactical or positional play and on whether you would like to attack or defend solidly.

Ignoring any theoretical points, if you want to attack the Marshall, Schliemann and the Bird's.

If you want solidity the Berlin ! or defending main line Chigorin or Breyer.

If you want something a bit out of the ordinary - try 3...Na5 (Miles) or 3...Bb4 (Hector-played this a bit).


Of course, I'm not saying that these are the best openings for you as ultimately, it's a question of finding the right defence that suits you. I don't hesitate to point out that there are loads of other defences to the Ruy.

At 1450 level , I suspect the Schliemann would score well.

Regards

Andrew
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Black Defense vs. Ruy Lopez
Reply #25 - 08/16/05 at 00:52:16
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To Scipio Rex's comments I would add:  when I think of the Neo-Steinitz, the main practitioner I think of, besides Keres, is Capablanca.  For the record, one database I checked had 58 N-S games by Keres (as Black) and 20 by Capa.  One of the games was Keres-Capa, which was a steady draw arising from the c4 Maroczy-Bind-ish variation.  I recall certain games that drew my attention to 4...d6 way back, including Olafsson-Keres, Fischer-Pachman, and Domnitz-Pachman.  I also don't recall any book on the Neo-Steinitz, but there was a section in the 1970s book How to Open a Chess Game in which Portisch (I think) advocated it for Black, presenting a few Keres games/game excerpts.
  
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