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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Czech system (Read 83801 times)
Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech system
Reply #35 - 07/31/08 at 21:59:33
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[quote]6. ...Bg4 is the mainline, which might be OK for Black, but I did dabble with 6. ...Nbd7, leaving the Bish on c8.
[/quote]
I'm instinctively more attracted to 6 ...ed 7 Nd4 g6, just 'cos it seems a bit more active. Is there a reason why this should be worse than 6 ...Bg4? Toppy's 10 ...Bg4 (from Sion Castro--Azmaiparashvili) looks interesting -- maybe Black can get in ...b5/... b4?
  
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JEH
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Re: Czech system
Reply #34 - 07/31/08 at 20:52:19
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[quote author=nmga link=1063396315/30#33 date=1217530039]Any crunchy recommendations in the 4 f4 / 5 Bd3 line, JEH? It seems harder for Black to get reliable active play here ...?[/quote]

Hmm, sadly not. It just seems Black is trying to hold on and equalise here. 6. ...Bg4 is the mainline, which might be OK for Black, but I did dabble with 6. ...Nbd7, leaving the Bish on c8.

My Pirc philosophy is meet f4 with c5, Nf3 with Nc6 and f3 with c6. Having played c6 on move 3 rather shows your hand, but it's not the end of the world.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

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Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech system
Reply #33 - 07/31/08 at 18:47:19
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Any crunchy recommendations in the 4 f4 / 5 Bd3 line, JEH? It seems harder for Black to get reliable active play here ...?
  
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JEH
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Re: Czech system
Reply #32 - 07/20/08 at 18:13:29
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I've dabbled with the Czech, but not played it for a couple of years now.

I don't think the Czech is busted. Even the line I posted earlier on this thread might be ok for Black ...


[Event "12th North American FIDE Inv"]
[Site "Chicago USA"]
[Date "2008.06.22"]
[Round "3"]
[White "Tate, E."]
[Black "Young, A PHI."]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "B07"]
[WhiteElo "2378"]
[BlackElo "2381"]
[PlyCount "72"]
[EventDate "2008.06.21"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "USA"]
[EventCategory "3"]
[Source "Mark Crowther"]
[SourceDate "2008.06.23"]

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 c6 4. f4 Qa5 5. e5 Ne4 6. Qf3 d5 7. Bd3 Na6 8. Nge2
Nb4 9. f5 Nxd3+ 10. cxd3 Nxc3 11. bxc3 e6 12. f6 g6 13. O-O b6 14. Bd2 Qa4 15.
c4 Qc2 16. Rfd1 Ba3 17. Bh6 Bb7 18. Rd2 Qa4 19. Rb1 O-O-O 20. Rb3 Bb4 21. Rdb2
c5 22. Qh3 Qc6 23. Rc2 Kb8 24. a3 dxc4 25. dxc4 Qe4 26. Rcb2 cxd4 27. axb4 d3
28. Ng3 Qd4+ 29. Kh1 d2 30. Bxd2 Qf2 31. Re3 Rxd2 32. Rxd2 Qxd2 33. Nf1 Qf2 34.
Rf3 Bxf3 35. Qxf3 Qxf3 36. gxf3 a5 0-1

If 4. ...Bg4 concerns you, then there is 4. ...g6 and go into a Pirc. You're commited to c6, but then f3 and f4 systems have been avoided.

As for books, Carpathian Warrior Book 1 covers it too, if your eyes can bear the cover  Shocked

I learnt it from Soltis's play 1...d6 book, and finding all the errors in that book (watch out for your Queen getting trapped!) was part of the fun of exploring this line.


  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Czech system
Reply #31 - 07/20/08 at 15:47:58
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I remember a game between gms godena and lazic from some 5 years ago where godena (which is generally amazingly prepared) played 4.Nf3, chased the g4 bishop with h3-g4 played Qe2 and blew the other guy off the bord. Not sure where lazic went wrong though. btw the game quite impressed me and i have tried this setup as white with good success. in italy FM de santis published a book on the czech (calling it the crocodile defence!) where he suggested that this system is one of the most dangerous but i have never really studied it in depth...

[Event "Milan Pentium4 3rd"]
[Site "Milan"]
[Date "2003.07.14"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Godena, Michele"]
[Black "Lazic, Miroljub"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A41"]
[WhiteElo "2517"]
[BlackElo "2506"]
[PlyCount "79"]
[EventDate "2003.07.14"]
[EventType "tourn"]
[EventRounds "9"]
[EventCountry "ITA"]
[EventCategory "7"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "2003.09.04"]

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 c6 4. Nf3 Bg4 5. h3 Bh5 6. Qe2 e6 7. g4 Bg6 8. h4 h5
9. g5 Nfd7 10. d5 cxd5 11. exd5 e5 12. Bh3 Be7 13. Be3 a6 14. O-O-O Qc7 15. Nd2
O-O 16. f4 exf4 17. Bxf4 Ne5 18. Bxe5 dxe5 19. d6 Qxd6 20. Nc4 Qc5 21. Nxe5 Nc6
22. Nd7 Qa5 23. Rd5 Qb4 24. Nxf8 Bxf8 25. Qf2 b5 26. Bf5 Qa5 27. Bxg6 fxg6 28.
Kb1 Bb4 29. Ne4 Re8 30. Rd7 Rf8 31. Qe2 Ne5 32. Rb7 Nc4 33. c3 Ba3 34. bxa3
Qxa3 35. Qc2 Rf4 36. Nf6+ Kf8 37. Rd1 Nd6 38. Rb8+ Kf7 39. Nd7 Ke7 40. Ne5 1-0

  
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Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech system
Reply #30 - 07/10/08 at 01:28:16
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Yes, I see what you mean ...
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #29 - 07/09/08 at 17:45:21
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[quote author=nmga link=1063396315/15#28 date=1215432422]There's quite a lot on the line Toppy cites in Yrjola & Tella's Explosive Black Repertoire book (pp. 131-8), tho' I've no idea how up to date it is. They seem to conclude Black's more or less OK, but implicitly acknowledge there's a lot of murk/unexplored territory ...[/quote]

The real problem for Black is in the note a) 11. d5!? and 15. Nde4 ( p. 135)

You can find 15. Cde4 in the game Cebalo-Halser Graz 1994 1-0 (33)
  

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Michael Ayton
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Re: Czech system
Reply #28 - 07/07/08 at 12:07:02
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There's quite a lot on the line Toppy cites in Yrjola & Tella's Explosive Black Repertoire book (pp. 131-8), tho' I've no idea how up to date it is. They seem to conclude Black's more or less OK, but implicitly acknowledge there's a lot of murk/unexplored territory ...
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #27 - 07/06/08 at 19:50:30
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HoemberChess wrote on 07/06/08 at 13:44:24:
Please someone give me the names of books on the Czech System.


This system is also known as the Pribyl Indian and there is a small book devoted to it by GM Jansa and IM Pribyl called How To Play The Pirc - A New System For Black!

I myself played this system several years ago and if studied in conjunction with the Philidor Defence-Hanham variation and the Pirc, then the Czech system could prove to be quite a useful weapon in ones arsenal.

Indeed the 4.f4 lines are critical, but many Whites do not fully grasp all the subtleties required to fight for an edge, and without that knowledge White can get a bad game easily and quickly. Even if White has an excellent working knowledge of the 4.f4 lines, a well prepared Black player still has many resources and even some of the lines given in OFWATA are unconvincing for White, for example in Sion Castro vs Zurab Azmaiparashvili 1996 10...Bg4!? is an interesting unmentioned alternative to the ones given in OFWATA.

I no longer play the Pribyl Indian as black, but for sure it still remains a viable defence with considerable surprise value and it is incredible how very often even strong OTB players haven't the slightest clue how to fight for advantage against it as a quick search on ICC will confirm.

Simple developing moves get White zilch in this system and the 4.f4 lines require considerable theoretical Knowledge. Attempts by White to steer the game towards quieter Pirc channels with moves such as 4.h3 or 4.a4 allow Black to tranpose to the Philidor Defence - improved hanham variation where the aforementioned moves could prove a bit premature.

Considering most of what I wrote so far, some of you maybe wondering why I abandoned this defence, well part of the reason lies in the following variation:

1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 c6 4.Nf3 Bg4 [The key idea of the Pribyl in the quiet lines is to get an improved french position with tha bad bishop outside the Black pawn chain] 5.h3 Bh5 6.g4 Bg6 7.Qe2! e6 8.h4! [This is the most dangerous move for Black to face, the alternative is 8.Bg5 and was used successfully by Ian Rogers in a game that should have won the Brilliancy prize at one of the Olympiads, I forget which, but somehow Kasparov managed to convince the judges that one of his games better constituted the definition of a modern day brilliancy.] 8...h5 9.g5 Nfd7 10.Bh3and I much prefer White in this position.      

The other part of my reason for abandoning this defence is safely stored in my chessbase files.  Wink

Toppy Smiley
« Last Edit: 07/07/08 at 17:43:12 by TopNotch »  

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HoemberChess
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Re: Czech system
Reply #26 - 07/06/08 at 13:44:24
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Please someone give me the names of books on the Czech System.
  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: Czech system
Reply #25 - 06/29/08 at 15:14:40
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What is White's best move after 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 c6 4.f4 Qa5 5.Bd3 e5 6.Nf3 Bg4 7.Be3 Nbd7 8.0-0 Be7?
What is wrong with 9.h3? How should Black answer it?
(I have started to play the Czech System as Black. I need help and study material.)
It occurred in one of my web-based correspondence game and I played 9..Bxf3 10.Qxf3 0-0. Should I have played 9..Bh5 instead?


jeupham wrote on 12/04/04 at 12:29:09:
I have played the Czech both OTB and in correspondance and had great fun with it not loosing OTB and only once in correspondance.

I want to ask about the following line which I think is critical:

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Sf6 3. Sc3 c6 4 f4. Da5 5. Ld3 e5 6. Sf3 Lg4 7. Le3 Sbd7 8. 0-0 Le7 9. De1!

Most games have instead had h3 flicked in and I think black is fine with this. Without h3 black is struggling (IMHO) and our game continued

9..Lf3: 10. Tf3: Sg4 11. Ld2 Db6 12. Se2! ed: 13. La5 Db2 14. Tb1 Da2: 15. Sd4: 0-0 (TN)


However, I feel that black is now busted. 15..Lh4 fails as does Lf6 albeit entertainingly! I think black has to chop on f3 and try and play on the dark squares.

What do you think?

I struggled on to loose in 30 moves.

Vasillis-Upham, 2004, 1-0


Regards, John Upham




  

as
*W 1d4) Torre/Barry/Pirc/Philidor/ early _d5:early c4(QGD/Slav/QGD/etc)
*B) 1e4:e6 [+1_c5 2Nf3 a6]| 1d4:e6 2c4 Bb4+ BID/pseudoNID [+1_Nf6 NID]| 1c4:c5,_Nc6,_e5,_g6| 1Nf3:c5
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Re: Czech system
Reply #24 - 09/22/05 at 03:45:00
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Quote:
It seems true that this is the critical test of black's system but I really think black has enough play here and there are a lot of interesting positions that arise after 6.Qf3 d5 7.Bd3 Na6!
If white now plays 8.Bxe4 dxe4 9.Qxe4 g6! is very strong planning Bf5 and Nb4 gaining light square control and an severely pressuring the c2 square.


White can play Qe2, O-O and g4 with compensation for the exchange. Interesting, but with ...

Quote:
White then may play 8.Nge2 Nb4 and again 9.Bxe4 dxe4 10.Qxe4 is a mistake this time due to the surprising ...f5! 11.exf6 Bf5 when I would love to play this position as black
so White be best to continue wih 9.0-0 Nxd3 10.cxd3 Nxc3 11.bxc3 g6 12.a4 h5 which it seems that white has a nice space advantage but i dont think black's position is unplayable here.  What do you guys think.  Any instructive games in this variation?

thanks


9. f5! and coming down fast along the f file, Black could be in trouble.

How about 6 Qf3 f5 !?
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Czech system
Reply #23 - 03/17/05 at 11:16:25
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WHY IS YOUR NAME VIETO?!?!?!PLEASE EMAIL ME BACK WITHWHY YOUR NAME IS VIETO OR YOUR LAST NAME BEING VIETO THANKS ??? ??? ??? Quote:
I'm not a GM or a computer, but I have already played the same line until 12.Ne2 on the board. It's not very difficult to know if one day you study seriously a White answer!

  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #22 - 02/25/05 at 11:47:27
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Quote:
I have played the Czech both OTB and in correspondance and had great fun with it not loosing OTB and only once in correspondance.

I want to ask about the following line which I think is critical:

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Sf6 3. Sc3 c6 4 f4. Da5 5. Ld3 e5 6. Sf3 Lg4 7. Le3 Sbd7 8. 0-0 Le7 9. De1!

Most games have instead had h3 flicked in and I think black is fine with this. Without h3 black is struggling (IMHO) and our game continued

9..Lf3: 10. Tf3: Sg4 11. Ld2 Db6 12. Se2! ed: 13. La5 Db2 14. Tb1 Da2: 15. Sd4: 0-0 (TN)








What about 11., exd4 ?

Se the game Verney K - Barnsley Tony  Corr 1995


  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #21 - 12/14/04 at 03:06:24
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There is certainly nothing wrong with 4.a4,  but if Black then changes plan and goes for a Pirc with 4...g6, White cannot go for the sharpest lines as in the Austrian Attack and the lines with Be3 and Bg5, White will very rarely meet ...c7-c6 with a2-a4.
  

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Re: Czech system
Reply #20 - 12/13/04 at 22:37:15
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I'm surprised that nobody has recommended 4. a4, which seems to embody a great deal of common sense.  Certainly White need not concern himself too much with tempo at this point, given Black's inactive play.

It could become a Philidor or some form of Classical Pirc.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: Czech system
Reply #19 - 12/11/04 at 08:56:18
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Which is the main defect of the Czech Defense.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Czech system
Reply #18 - 12/09/04 at 11:39:35
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i have to admitt that I havent read the complete dialog exchange.  Embarrassed

But I have made good experiencec (on the white side) with the line 1.e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 c6 4. f4 Qa5 5. e5 Ne4 6. Qf3 Nxc3 7. Bd2 Bf5  8. Bd3 Bxd3 9.cxd3 Qd5 10. bxc3 Qxf3 11.Nxf3 e6

I know this variation is long but surprisingly i had this position already several times on the board. Acording to one of my opponents this line should be in his book and is deemed to be total equal and the hole line should be harmless.

But i have made a good score with the simple set up

Ke2, Rhb1, a4, a5

Well it is not a big advantage but I think I can play without any risk for a win
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #17 - 12/05/04 at 14:27:59
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Quote:
It's not very difficult to know if one day you study seriously a White answer!


ummm...translation required please!

John
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #16 - 12/05/04 at 14:26:02
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I'm pleased that you think that you are not a computer. If you weren't sure then consider the following:

Isaac Asimov's "Three Laws of Robotics"

A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

A robot must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.

A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law


which might provide some insight...

John
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #15 - 12/05/04 at 14:14:29
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I'm not a GM or a computer, but I have already played the same line until 12.Ne2 on the board. It's not very difficult to know if one day you study seriously a White answer!
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #14 - 12/05/04 at 09:03:03
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I hope I was playing the GM but as you say it could also have been a computer. Whatever it was it played very accurately after 15..0-0 and I had no let off whatsoever.

I doubt that a computer would have played 9. De1 since it requires the kind of judgement that they do not yet have.

OK, I don' feel so bad now!


John
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #13 - 12/05/04 at 08:49:52
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Yeah actually this is a Caro-Kann variation. You know, I believe that either your opponent used a computer or you were playing against a GM (that's why he didn't want to reveal his name?) like Vassilis Kotronias  Smiley Cause I know literally no one that knows well and plays this line. And I agree that Qc7 is a bit passive  Undecided My very general opinion after 3..c6 is that black 'd rather put the bishop on the g7 and later counter-attack with b5. This is a very sharp system in the Pirc and as you like attacking the enemy pawn structure (from the openings you played) this will suit you. Now with the bishop on e7, I cannot think anything more than 15..Bh4 which simply is not enough.
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #12 - 12/05/04 at 07:20:48
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I agree that white stands better and that Dc7 is OK albeit not very active. Nobody had tried 0-0 previously trying the hairy Lh4 instead.

Obviously, this is not a Pirc since the g pawn remains on g7. transpositions are rare since the dark squared usually resides on e7.

In a sense I'm not too worried since most people don't know the line well enough to get to move 9 let alone forgo playing h3. Not a good answer I know but OTB chess is much more pratical usually!

Regards, John
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #11 - 12/05/04 at 07:11:43
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Actually I was thinking something like 10..Qc7 11.Ne2 dxe4 but to be honest with you I do not really like black position here. Actually I do not like the Pirc as an opening so I do not think that I can help at all here. The variation you played though, is considered theory but white stands better.
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #10 - 12/05/04 at 06:12:44
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Any chance of discussing the position rather than the notation!?

John
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #9 - 12/05/04 at 05:57:08
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This is true - but it is also probably true that more people understand English than any other single language.  And this is an anglophone forum ...
Personally I am fine with German, French, or whatever, but I imagine not everyone is in the same boat.
  

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Re: Czech system
Reply #8 - 12/04/04 at 22:08:50
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What is so international about <K, Q, R, B, N>? The majority of the world population does not speak English.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Czech system
Reply #7 - 12/04/04 at 19:36:27
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Thx for the explanations Smiley

P.S. Your opponent, if Vassilis was his real name, was a man.
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #6 - 12/04/04 at 16:07:41
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I must admit I thought German Algebraic was reasonably international but if its not then

K=Konig=King=K
D=Dame=Queen=Q
T=Turm=Rook=R
L=Laufer=Bishop=B
S=Springer=Knight=K
(B=Bauer=Pawn=P)

and ":" indicates capture

should help.

I tried to determine the full name of my opponent but he/she/it declined to reveal. It was played on the ChessWorld.net server. Anyway, who or what I was playing doesn't really matter.

Regards, John


  
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Tzanidakis_Michael
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Re: Czech system
Reply #5 - 12/04/04 at 14:41:50
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Quote:
I have played the Czech both OTB and in correspondance and had great fun with it not loosing OTB and only once in correspondance.

I want to ask about the following line which I think is critical:

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Sf6 3. Sc3 c6 4 f4. Da5 5. Ld3 e5 6. Sf3 Lg4 7. Le3 Sbd7 8. 0-0 Le7 9. De1!

Most games have instead had h3 flicked in and I think black is fine with this. Without h3 black is struggling (IMHO) and our game continued

9..Lf3: 10. Tf3: Sg4 11. Ld2 Db6 12. Se2! ed: 13. La5 Db2 14. Tb1 Da2: 15. Sd4: 0-0 (TN)


However, I feel that black is now busted. 15..Lh4 fails as does Lf6 albeit entertainingly! I think black has to chop on f3 and try and play on the dark squares.

What do you think?

I struggled on to loose in 30 moves.

Vasillis-Upham, 2004, 1-0


Regards, John Upham




Would you please be kind enough to give your game with the well-known (international?) notiations Q,K,N,B,R so I can follow the game much quicker and easier blindfold? Also about the "Vasillis-Upham" game, especially if your opponent is Greek, Vasillis is propably the first name and not the last name of your opponent. Just in case your are holding a record  Wink
  
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jeupham
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Re: Czech system
Reply #4 - 12/04/04 at 12:29:09
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I have played the Czech both OTB and in correspondance and had great fun with it not loosing OTB and only once in correspondance.

I want to ask about the following line which I think is critical:

1. e4 d6 2. d4 Sf6 3. Sc3 c6 4 f4. Da5 5. Ld3 e5 6. Sf3 Lg4 7. Le3 Sbd7 8. 0-0 Le7 9. De1!

Most games have instead had h3 flicked in and I think black is fine with this. Without h3 black is struggling (IMHO) and our game continued

9..Lf3: 10. Tf3: Sg4 11. Ld2 Db6 12. Se2! ed: 13. La5 Db2 14. Tb1 Da2: 15. Sd4: 0-0 (TN)


However, I feel that black is now busted. 15..Lh4 fails as does Lf6 albeit entertainingly! I think black has to chop on f3 and try and play on the dark squares.

What do you think?

I struggled on to loose in 30 moves.

Vasillis-Upham, 2004, 1-0


Regards, John Upham



  
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J.J.
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Re: Czech system
Reply #3 - 11/06/04 at 22:47:11
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It was my impression that either 6.Bd3 or 6.Qd2 offered White better chances than 6.Qf3. But, I don't play the Pirc myself...and haven't faced these lines as white (I don't play 1.e4).

The only game I have around with helpful, human analysis on these lines is the one Evgeny Alekseev discussed in a interview with Misha Savinov for Chess Cafe.

Alekseev,E (2275) - Guseinov,G (2235)
Kasparov Cup (2), Moscow 1998
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #2 - 09/15/03 at 15:57:11
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It seems true that this is the critical test of black's system but I really think black has enough play here and there are a lot of interesting positions that arise after 6.Qf3 d5 7.Bd3 Na6!
If white now plays 8.Bxe4 dxe4 9.Qxe4 g6! is very strong planning Bf5 and Nb4 gaining light square control and an severely pressuring the c2 square.
White then may play 8.Nge2 Nb4 and again 9.Bxe4 dxe4 10.Qxe4 is a mistake this time due to the surprising ...f5! 11.exf6 Bf5 when I would love to play this position as black
so White be best to continue wih 9.0-0 Nxd3 10.cxd3 Nxc3 11.bxc3 g6 12.a4 h5 which it seems that white has a nice space advantage but i dont think black's position is unplayable here.  What do you guys think.  Any instructive games in this variation?

thanks
  
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Re: Czech system
Reply #1 - 09/15/03 at 03:24:11
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I think (though I may be wrong) that there is something of a consensus now that 4.f4 Qa5 5.e5 Ne4 6.Qf3 makes life rather difficult for Black.
  

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Nolan
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Czech system
09/12/03 at 14:51:53
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I was wondering if any of you play the so-called czech system.
1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 c6
Ive seen some very interesting games in this system when white plays 4.f4 Qa5 and im thinking about adopting this system as black.  i currently play the french, classical dutch, and english defence as black and was wondering if any of you play this opening as black and what you think of its merit?
Anyone seen Andrew Martin's videos on this system?

Thanks
Nolan
  
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